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  <id>tag:,2008:/1/tag:72.47.210.69,2005://1.4537-</id>
  <updated>2008-08-22T19:08:26Z</updated>
  <title>Comments for MSN vs WebMachine</title>
  
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  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2005://1.4537</id>
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    <link rel="service.edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-atom.cgi/weblog/blog_id=1/entry_id=4537" title="MSN vs WebMachine" />
    <published>2005-09-25T11:25:04Z</published>
    <updated>2007-12-16T23:15:49Z</updated>
    <title>MSN vs WebMachine</title>
    <summary> CNET takes an interesting look at Microsoft&apos;s history in the Web era and suggests that MSN may now be a key part of Microsoft&apos;s Web 2.0 strategy. They write that MSN is already being used as a platform for Windows software releases: &quot;The search service in Windows Vista, for example, shipped earlier as MSN...</summary>
    <author>
      <name>Richard MacManus</name>
      <uri>http://www.readwriteweb.com</uri>
    </author>
    
    <category term="Web 2.0 Tech" />
    
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      <![CDATA[<p><a
href="http://beta.news.com.com/Microsofts+nightmare+inches+closer+to+reality/2100-1012-5877197.html">
CNET takes an interesting look</a> at Microsoft's history in the Web era and suggests
that MSN may now be a key part of Microsoft's Web 2.0 strategy. They write that MSN is
already being used as a platform for Windows software releases:</p>

<p><i>"The search service in Windows Vista, for example, shipped earlier as MSN Desktop
Search. In addition, Internet Explorer features, like tabbed browsing, and protection
against phishing techniques [...] shipped first through MSN."</i></p>

<p>What's more interesting is an old Microsoft memo from May 1995 that CNET dug up again,
called "The Web is the Next Platform", and what <i>that</i> tells us about MSN's future.
The memo was written by Microsoft engineer Ben Slivka (where is he now, I wonder?).
Here's <a
href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/1998/12/13/analysis_selling_the_web/">TheRegister's
coverage of it from December 1998</a>, around the time of the Microsoft anti-trust
trial:</p>

<p><i>By 27th May 1995 Slivka is on version 5 of the document, so we can presume that if
Bill Gates read an earlier version, he didn't understand it. Nor indeed does Slivka seem
to understand the implications of what he's saying completely. He leads in with "The Web
is an application platform (complete with APIs, data formats, and protocols) that
threatens Windows."</i></p>

<p>Later in TheRegister piece...</p>

<p><i>Says Slivka: "My nightmare scenario is that the Web grows into a rich application
platform in an operating system-neutral way, and the a company like Siemens or Matsushita
comes out with a $500 "WebMachine" that attaches to a TV&hellip; When faced with the
choice between a $500 box (Risc CPU, 4-8 megabyte RAM, no hard disk,&hellip;) and a $2k
Pentium/P6 Windows machine, the two thirds of [US] homes that don't have a PC may find
the $500 machine pretty attractive!"</i></p>

<p>Wow - that was an incredibly prescient thing to say in 1995! Swap "Siemens or Matsushita" with Google, and
"WebMachine" with <a href="http://www.kottke.org/05/08/googleos-webos">WebOS</a> - and
that's precisely the competitive threat Microsoft faces today.</p>

<p>But let's return to the topic of MSN. Ten years ago, the memo made it apparent that
MSN was heading in the direction of an AOL - a closed proprietary system 'competing' with
the Web:</p>

<p><i>"There was a time when we thought that we could just 'build it and they will come'
with MSN, hence all the non-Internet technologies we developed (Marvel RPC, incompatible
Mail &amp; News protocols, MOSView etc.) for MSN. These technology choices were
unfortunate, for (in hindsight) I think it is clear that MSN would have been much further
along now if we had started from the existing Web and enhanced it. [...] It is possible
that if Microsoft forges ahead with its current MSN plan (Blackbird, OLE everywhere,
COM/DCOM etc.) and only pays the Internet lip service, we may 'pull a Windows' and end up
dominating the online world. All of these other players will spend all of their time
bickering about IETF standards and shipping incompatible extensions, and the Internet
will end up a mish-mash of incompatible solutions."&nbsp;</i></p>

<p>On that last point - although the Web still has issues with "incompatible solutions", the core web solutions have in fact solidified. As <a href="http://gonze.com/weblog/story/9-22-5">Lucas Gonze recently pointed out</a> in
a post about how systems rigidify over time: "I'm wondering how long the current round of
[Web] standards will stick around, and fooling with the idea that it might be for a lot
longer than we would expect." I agree, web standards and formats (especially the 'simple'
ones such as HTTP, REST, XML, RSS, etc) have proven to be remarkably resilient and I
expect them to be around for a lot longer. Maybe even Web 10.0, as Lucas has been
pondering.&nbsp;</p>

<p>So yes, over the past 10 years the Web system has certainly rigidified. To the point
that in 2005 Microsoft sees Google, the bigco most likely to roll out a WebMachine, as
the major threat it's feared all along.&nbsp;</p>

<p>In response Microsoft is integrating MSN into its platform product development group,
where Windows is developed. It's too early to know how this will play out, but one
thing's for sure - the Web is on an equal footing with Windows for Microsoft now. It took
them 10 years to fulfill the destiny that one of their smart engineers, Ben Slivka,
mapped out for them in May 1995. But will it be enough to stop the WebMachine?</p>]]>
      
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  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2005://1.4537-comment:36342</id>
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    <title>Comment from andrew on 2005-09-25</title>
    <author>
        <name>andrew</name>
        <uri></uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[<p>"...by Microsoft engineer Ben Slivka (where is he now, I wonder?)"</p>

<p>Here he is: <a href="http://www.slivka.com/" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://www.slivka.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.slivka.com/</a></a></p>

<p>Check his review of "Breaking Windows" here: <a href="http://www.slivka.com/Books/" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://www.slivka.com/Books/" rel="nofollow">http://www.slivka.com/Books/</a></a> where he mentions the book has some quotes by him in it.  Poke around his site a bit, he's obviously made a huge pile of dough from MSFT, not bad.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2005-09-25T14:49:29Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2005://1.4537-comment:36343</id>
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    <title>Comment from Nick on 2005-09-25</title>
    <author>
        <name>Nick</name>
        <uri></uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[<p>One guess where Slivka works now. Yep, Google.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2005-09-26T03:36:21Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2005://1.4537-comment:36344</id>
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    <title>Comment from Richard MacManus on 2005-09-25</title>
    <author>
        <name>Richard MacManus</name>
        <uri>http://www.readwriteweb.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.readwriteweb.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>You're kidding, he works for Google?! Does anyone have a link to verify that?</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2005-09-26T04:35:30Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2005://1.4537-comment:36345</id>
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    <title>Comment from Al on 2005-09-26</title>
    <author>
        <name>Al</name>
        <uri>http://blogs.opml.org/al/</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://blogs.opml.org/al/">
        <![CDATA[<p>there is a channel 9 article abpout him here : <br />
<a href="http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=10049" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=10049" rel="nofollow">http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=10049</a></a></p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2005-09-26T16:35:49Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2005://1.4537-comment:36346</id>
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    <title>Comment from Richard MacManus on 2005-09-26</title>
    <author>
        <name>Richard MacManus</name>
        <uri>http://www.readwriteweb.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.readwriteweb.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link Al. But there's no indication he works for Google in that post - and I did a quick search and found no leads??</p>

<p>Anyway, here's Ben's description from the channel9 article:</p>

<p>"I left Microsoft in the fall of 1999, spent nine months at Amazon.com, and then decided I needed to focus my energy on my family and philanthropy.  I have three kids, I support my wifeís marathon schedule, and Iím on several boards: www.northwestern.edu, www.teachfirst.com, www.groundspring.org, and www.GarfieldHSF.org.  Iím also working with several non-profit groups, including www.SVPSeattle.org, www.SeattleMESA.org, and www.BSFdn.org.  I host seven websites, and I enjoy digital photography.  Never a shortage of things to do!"</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2005-09-26T20:08:23Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2005://1.4537-comment:36347</id>
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    <title>Comment from Ben Slivka on 2005-09-27</title>
    <author>
        <name>Ben Slivka</name>
        <uri>http://www.slivka.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.slivka.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>Richard MacManus did find the most recent info on me. Jamie @ Channel9 talked me into an interview, and I first met him online when I was working on IE (I led the development of the first three version) ten years ago!</p>

<p>I dropped the www.Groundspring.org board a year ago, but invested in www.Vizrea.com (founded by Mike Toutonghi, who did the Java VM and Windows Media Center Edition at Microsoft) earlier this year.</p>

<p>And contrary to Nick's assertion, I do not work at Google (though I know many folks who do).</p>

<p>Let me also say that Windows, Linux, and MacOS all have identical vunerabilities to viruses and none of them are the client OS that we want for the 21st century.  That new OS has yet to emerge.  ;-)</p>

<p>Happy Futures!<br />
--Ben</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2005-09-28T05:43:43Z</published>
  </entry>

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