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  <id>tag:,2008:/1/tag:72.47.210.69,2006://1.5212-</id>
  <updated>2008-09-24T12:22:16Z</updated>
  <title>Comments for Prediction Markets at confab.yahoo</title>
  
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    <link rel="service.edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-atom.cgi/weblog/blog_id=1/entry_id=5212" title="Prediction Markets at confab.yahoo" />
    <published>2006-12-14T20:00:46Z</published>
    <updated>2007-12-16T23:16:38Z</updated>
    <title>Prediction Markets at confab.yahoo</title>
    <summary>A report from the yahoo.confab event on Prediction Markets, held Wed Dec 13 in Silicon Valley. Written by Nitin Karandikar from The Software Abstractions Blog and edited by Richard MacManus. All photos are by David Rout for Yodel Anecdotal. Can Prediction Markets make it easier to get at the knowledge that is already embedded within...</summary>
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      <name>Guest Author</name>
      
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      <![CDATA[<p><i>A report from the <a href="http://confab.yahoo.com/">yahoo.confab</a> event on Prediction Markets, held Wed Dec 13 in
Silicon Valley. Written by Nitin Karandikar from <a
title="The Software Abstractions Blog" href="http://blog.softwareabstractions.com/">The
Software Abstractions Blog</a> and edited by Richard MacManus. All photos are <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/yodelanecdotal/sets/72157594420075742/">by David Rout</a> for Yodel Anecdotal.</i></p>

<p>Can Prediction Markets make it easier to get at the knowledge that is already embedded
within an organization? Are we using the power of collective intelligence to make better
decisions?</p>

<p>These were some of the questions discussed at the <a title="confab.yahoo session"
href="http://upcoming.org/event/130004">confab.yahoo session</a> yesterday on Prediction
Markets (see also <a
href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/confab_yahoo_predictive_markets.php">R/WW's
pre-event write-up</a>). For the uninitiated, <a title="Prediction Markets"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prediction_market">Prediction Markets</a> is a hot new
concept that is a fascinating blend of stock market action, knowledge discovery and
social dynamics. If you extend the idea that "Market price reflects all the available
knowledge of traders", then by deliberately setting up a market based on questions of
interest, you can potentially discover probability distributions for answers - by
watching the price action.</p>]]>
      <![CDATA[<h2>Discussion on Predictive Markets Theory</h2>

<p><img border="0" src="http://static.flickr.com/123/322289977_015b7b261d_m.jpg"
alt="James Surowiecki" align="left" hspace="5" vspace="5" width="222" height="240" />In
the feature panel, moderator <a title="James Surowiecki"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Surowiecki">James Surowiecki</a> , author of the
popular book "<a title="The Wisdom of Crowds"
href="http://www.randomhouse.com/features/wisdomofcrowds/index.html">The Wisdom of
Crowds</a>", explained that Prediction Markets make it easier to get at collective,
hidden knowledge within an organization - which leads to improved decision-making. He
described the jelly bean experiment detailed in his book: typically, the <i>average
guess</i> of a large group of people about the number of jelly beans in a jar is
exceptionally good, usually within 3-5% of the real value. And interestingly, better than
almost all of the individual guesses.</p>

<p><a
title="Robin Hanson" href="http://hanson.gmu.edu/">Robin Hanson</a> of George Mason
University, introduced by Surowiecki as the "father of Prediction Markets", talked more
about the theory. He said that markets are made up of prices and speculators. Since the
price includes all factors, the market embodies a lot of knowledge about the future and
can be used to create a probability estimate of the likelihood of something happening.</p>
<p><img border="0" src="http://static.flickr.com/128/322290100_4da9b2a670_m.jpg"
alt="Robin Hanson, GMU" align="right" hspace="5" vspace="5" width="240" height="159" />Even if a prediction market is not perfect, Hanson said it beats the alternatives - such as
public opinion, public experts or private experts. Hanson's most interesting point was
that as long as the market is large enough, the choice of participants is less critical;
choosing bozos does not necessarily imply a big penalty. But the market must be
well-informed.</p>

<p><a title="Eric Zitzewitz" href="http://faculty-gsb.stanford.edu/zitzewitz/">Eric
Zitzewitz</a> of Stanford then talked about Event Studies and cautioned that analysis of
these markets can sometimes lead to the wrong conclusions, especially if the time period
is wrong; e.g. when looking at S&amp;P 500 data, the positive effect of Donald Rumsfeld's
resignation swamped out the negative effect of Democratic congressional control.</p>

<p>Eric offered several reasons why a market is a better way to get information than a
public opinion poll:</p>

<p>&nbsp; - Opinion polls often ask the wrong question (such as 'Whom did you vote for',
rather than 'Who do you think will win the election?')<br />
&nbsp; - Markets offer a financial or reputation incentive, leading to greater
participation<br />
&nbsp; - Market participants are self-selected; typically people who think they know
more, trade more<br />
&nbsp; - A community grows around the market and becomes knowledgeable<br />
&nbsp; - Incidentally, studies have shown that there is no statistical difference in the
results when play money is used instead of real money</p>

<p>However, there are caveats:<br />
&nbsp; - An incentive is essential for this type of market to work (the information you
get is not free!)<br />
&nbsp; - Without adequate participation, the market can become illiquid<br />
&nbsp; - If bids are not anonymous, there is the risk of an "echo chamber effect" (one
person leads, and the others follow)<br />
&nbsp; - Traders may collude, rather than acting individually</p>

<h2>Corporate forecasting and decision making panel</h2>

<p><img border="0" src="http://static.flickr.com/136/322290370_6b413a557f_m.jpg"
alt="Bo Cowgill, Google" align="right" hspace="5" vspace="5" width="240"
height="189" />Participants for the corporate forecasting and decision making panel all
came from big companies. <a title="Bo Cowgill" href="http://www.bocowgill.com/">Bo
Cowgill</a> from Google (pictured to the right) talked about <b>incentive systems</b> for
participants of Prediction Markets. His main point was that social rewards like
status/reputation within your peers are much more effective than purely monetary rewards,
as incentives, since financial rewards are too small and awkward due to legal and
regulatory reasons.&nbsp;</p>

<p><img border="0" src="http://static.flickr.com/139/322290442_1cc9695df6_m.jpg"
alt="Leslie Fine, HP Labs" align="left" hspace="5" vspace="5" width="240"
height="206" /><a title="Leslie Fine"
href="http://www.hpl.hp.com/research/idl/people/lfine/">Leslie Fine</a> of HP Labs
described the BRAIN software that HP has built for internal prediction markets. It has
the simplicity and robustness of a simple survey and is designed to take the bias,
manipulation and hierarchy out of the predictions of small groups. She described the
real-world constraints of running a market in the corporate environment: you need an
adequately large population knowledgeable about the topic, the players may be too busy,
and the market may become illiquid.</p>

<p><img border="0" src="http://static.flickr.com/143/322290482_16645153bd_m.jpg"
alt="David Pennock, Yahoo! Research" align="right" hspace="5" vspace="5" width="240"
height="161" /><a title="David Pennock" href="http://dpennock.com/">David Pennock</a> of
Yahoo! Research described a case study of a Dynamic Parimutuel Market, used to power the
Yahoo O'Reilly Buzz game: it combines the metaphors of a stock market and a horse race.
It uses a Share-Ratio price function, so that the price goes up or down as something
becomes more or less valuable, respectively. Yahoo! has a public game going on now, based
on <a title="newsfutures" href="http://us.newsfutures.com/home/home.html">newsfutures</a>
software, designed to predict which technologies will become more popular. He also made
some comments about Yootopia - an experiment using an internal Yahoo! currency called
yootles for group decisions, internal auctions, friendly wagers and so on.</p>

<p><img border="0" src="http://static.flickr.com/123/322290540_7676a4851e_m.jpg"
alt="Todd Proebsting, Microsoft" align="left" hspace="5" vspace="5" width="160"
height="240" /><a title="Todd Proebsting"
href="http://research.microsoft.com/~toddpro/">Todd Proebsting</a> of Microsoft, in his
case study, described a market he created to predict the validity of the testing schedule
for an internal tool, which correctly predicted the extremely low probability of making
the release date! The beauty of prediction markets, according to Todd, is that they can
deliver a message (sometimes an uncomfortable message) that cannot be denied; a large
part of the value of such a market is not only in predicting the answer to a specific
question accurately, but also in getting overall information and knowledge out of the
market to make better decisions. It's a great way to get rid of the filtering between the
bottom and top of an organization, and bring up the topics that no one wants to talk
about.</p>

<p><a title="Chris Hibbert" href="http://mydruthers.com/">Chris Hibbert</a> talked about
<a title="Zocalo" href="http://zocalo.sourceforge.net/">Zocalo</a>, his open source
prediction market software, which is available without restriction for creating
individual markets. He is trying to consolidate many of the features available from
different prediction market vendors into Zocalo.&nbsp;</p>

<p>Finally, <a title="Adam Siegel"
href="http://inklingmarkets.com/corporate/public_about_us">Adam Siegel</a> of Inkling
described the lessons learned from failed markets he's observed (he also plugged <a
title="Worthio Beta" href="http://worthio.com">his new Beta site</a>). He noted:</p>

<p>&nbsp; - The most important point is that people often do not know exactly what a
Prediction Market is and what it can do<br />
&nbsp; - The market structure could be wrong (e.g. if it's set up like an opinion poll,
it may be impossible to cash out)<br />
&nbsp; - The market description rules are poorly stated or not iron-clad (or they may be
iron-clad, but misinterpreted by most participants, such as the recent <a
title="N. Korea missile test controversy"
href="http://www.freakonomics.com/blog/2006/08/09/a-bump-in-the-road-for-prediction-markets/">
N. Korea missile test controversy</a>)<br />
&nbsp; - The questions posed may be biased<br />
&nbsp; - The timeframe may be too long (e.g. how much will college graduates make in
2025?)<br />
&nbsp; - There may be no information available for traders to make a reasonable
judgement</p>

<h2>Takeaways</h2>
<p>By this point, everyone was waiting eagerly for pizza, and the questions were minimal.
To me, the most interesting takeaway points from the session (excuse me, confab) were the
following:</p>

<p>1. Prediction Markets are a great mechanism to extract knowledge already present
within the organization and to make better predictions<br />
2. These markets highlight both the collective wisdom which no one person knows
individually, and common knowledge which no one is willing to talk about openly<br />
3. They work properly only when they have an adequate number of knowledgeable
participants who work individually<br />
4. Participants must have reasonable incentives (financial or social) to make their
efforts worthwhile<br />
5. If the group is large enough, the ratio of experts vs amateurs does not have much
impact; often, the real experts are unexpected<br />
6. The results of a Prediction Market are probabilities; they must be confirmed through
other, external, means<br />
<br />
Written by Nitin Karandikar from <a title="The Software Abstractions Blog"
href="http://blog.softwareabstractions.com/">The Software Abstractions Blog</a>.</p>

<p>All photos are <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/yodelanecdotal/sets/72157594420075742/">by David Rout</a> for Yodel Anecdotal.</p>]]>
    </content>
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  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2006://1.5212-comment:41324</id>
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    <title>Comment from Filippo Zere on 2006-12-14</title>
    <author>
        <name>Filippo Zere</name>
        <uri></uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[<p>You made some good points.. even though you should also read some articles on www.businesshackers.com keep posting!</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2006-12-14T20:51:12Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2006://1.5212-comment:41325</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:72.47.210.69,2006://1.5212" type="text/html" href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/prediction_markets_report_yconfab.php"/>
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    <title>Comment from Rolf Mueller on 2006-12-14</title>
    <author>
        <name>Rolf Mueller</name>
        <uri></uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[<p>I'm a bit baffeld by Takeaway #6. Why should the probabilities generated in a prediction market be confirmed "through other external means"? If the people participating in a prediction market are a sufficiently knowledgable and motivated bunch, how can you do better? The requirement sounds as sensible as saying that the price of a stock or a futures contract "must be confirmed through other external means". Most people would consider such a requirement as uncalled for.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2006-12-14T22:46:56Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2006://1.5212-comment:41326</id>
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    <title>Comment from Emre Sokullu on 2006-12-14</title>
    <author>
        <name>Emre Sokullu</name>
        <uri>http://emresokullu.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://emresokullu.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>I was there, was a great event, Zochalo is a great resource</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2006-12-14T23:48:04Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2006://1.5212-comment:41327</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:72.47.210.69,2006://1.5212" type="text/html" href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/prediction_markets_report_yconfab.php"/>
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    <title>Comment from Dimitar Vesselinov on 2006-12-14</title>
    <author>
        <name>Dimitar Vesselinov</name>
        <uri>http://divedi.blogspot.com/</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://divedi.blogspot.com/">
        <![CDATA[<p>Is there a podcast from this event?</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2006-12-15T03:35:14Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2006://1.5212-comment:41328</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:72.47.210.69,2006://1.5212" type="text/html" href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/prediction_markets_report_yconfab.php"/>
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    <title>Comment from Nitink on 2006-12-14</title>
    <author>
        <name>Nitink</name>
        <uri>http://blog.softwareabstractions.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://blog.softwareabstractions.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>Thanks, everyone for your comments.</p>

<p>Filippo, thanks - I looked at businesshackers.com, but could not find any articles on Prediction Markets.</p>

<p>Emre - wish I had known you were there, I would've liked to say Hi! I have been following your writings for a little while now, I think we cover some of the same topics (esp. Internet search!).</p>

<p>Dimitar - I haven't found a podcast, but the Upcoming page has webcasts <a href="http://upcoming.org/event/130004" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>

<p><br />
Rolf:<br />
#6 says that the results of a Prediction Market are probabilities; they (i.e. <i>the results</i>) must be confirmed through other external means. I apologize for the ambiguous pronoun. But you have a good question, this statement does bear additional examination.</p>

<p>I think one of the points made at the session (I forget exactly who said that) was that if the market addresses a binary question - e.g. will Apocalypto bomb at the Box Office? (j/k) - and if the participants weigh heavily in one direction, then depending on the market set up, the stock price may go to the max limit, and it's tempting to assume in that case that the event is a foregone conclusion; but you have to bear in mind that the market really only forecasts a probability, not a guarantee.</p>

<p>Another point James Surowiecki made more than once, which I found really interesting, is that <i>experts are not good at forecasting their blind spots</i> - i.e. they are as confident about their bad bets as their good bets.</p>

<p>Finally, markets might give the wrong information for many reasons, including leaving out potential participants who are the <i>real</i> experts, wrong time period (see the "swamping" example in the post), echo chamber effect, thin/illiquid markets, varying risk attitudes, and so on.</p>

<p>So while markets are usually very good at pointing in the right direction, they can get carried away, and their results should not be accepted blindly. </p>

<p>Sorry for the long-winded answer; hope this helps!</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2006-12-15T05:29:39Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2006://1.5212-comment:41329</id>
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    <title>Comment from David Pennock on 2006-12-18</title>
    <author>
        <name>David Pennock</name>
        <uri>http://dpennock.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://dpennock.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>Great writeup. Glad the event was valuable.</p>

<p>As for the question about a podcast: Archive video of the event is avaliable: <a href="http://playlist.yahoo.com/makeplaylist.dll?id=1531954&segment=180308" rel="nofollow">100k</a> | <a href="http://playlist.yahoo.com/makeplaylist.dll?id=1531955&segment=180308" rel="nofollow">300k</a></p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2006-12-18T17:11:43Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2006://1.5212-comment:41330</id>
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    <title>Comment from David Rout on 2006-12-18</title>
    <author>
        <name>David Rout</name>
        <uri></uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[<p>Richard - that's a nice summary of the night and the event turned out to be very interesting. Just wanted to say thanks for using and crediting my photos!</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2006-12-18T21:09:18Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2006://1.5212-comment:41331</id>
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    <title>Comment from John Maloney on 2006-12-26</title>
    <author>
        <name>John Maloney</name>
        <uri>http://www.pmcluster.com/</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.pmcluster.com/">
        <![CDATA[<p>The AEI-Brookings Joint Center is sponsoring the w/w Prediction Markets Conference in Wash DC on 18 Jan 2007. See: <br />
 <br />
<a href="http://www.pmcluster.com/IAD.htm" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://www.pmcluster.com/IAD.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.pmcluster.com/IAD.htm</a></a></p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2006-12-27T02:50:05Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2006://1.5212-comment:41332</id>
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    <title>Comment from jheuristic on 2006-12-26</title>
    <author>
        <name>jheuristic</name>
        <uri>http://www.pmcluster.com/</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.pmcluster.com/">
        <![CDATA[<p><br />
Hi --</p>

<p>Yes, excellent event. Vendor-sponsored, after work pizza events are important. </p>

<p>Yahoo! has been an excellent sponsor of your worldwide prediction markets community, clusters and consortium.</p>

<p>Yahoo! sponsored the first after work prediction markets gathering on behalf of your PM cluster and industry on 2 Feb 2006 at their premises in New York City. The confab was an excellent follow-up.   </p>

<p>Special kudos to David Pennock for his vision, alacrity and leadership... and to Yahoo! for their prediction markets  community sponsorship. </p>

<p>AEI-Brookings Joint Center is sponsoring the Global Prediction Markets Conference, Thursday 18 Jan 2007, in Washington, DC USA. This is more of a deep dive and will examine critical PM themes of regulation, policy and finance.</p>

<p>-j</p>

<p>P.S. David -- great photos!</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2006-12-27T03:04:18Z</published>
  </entry>

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