Comments for Plentyoffish: 1-Man Company May Be Worth $1Billion

Plentyoffish: 1-Man Company May Be Worth $1Billion

2007-10-30T04:36:20Z

We've written before about PlentyOfFish, a leading online dating site that is run by a single person and is raking in money. Markus Frind is the singular force behind PlentyOfFish. At the time of our last review, June 2006, PlentyOfFish was earning $10,000 per day from Google Adsense (around $3.5 M per annum).

I caught up with Markus today via email and asked how the business is doing now. He didn't want to get specific about earnings, but he said that POF will earn $10 Million + next year (which puts it at around $30k per day). So just in earnings, POF has grown rapidly over the past year or so. As well as Adsense, income now comes from banner ads and affiliate marketing. A May Wall St Journal article has a good general profile of Markus and his company.

There is one former fact about PlentyOfFish that has just become a myth - Markus hired his first employee a few weeks ago! This person is doing customer service, a task previously done by Markus and his girlfriend. So technically POF is a two-person company now, but that doesn't make quite as good a headline ;-)

]]> In terms of traffic, currently POF gets 1.2 billion page views/month, and 500,000 average unique logins per day. The peak season is January, when it will grow 30% according to Markus. I asked what is the total number of users that POF has currently, but Markus replied that total users means nothing in the dating industry. He said that True.com and others claim 20 million users, yet fewer than 100,000 people a day actually login and use those services. According to Hitwise stats, POF is second in the US online dating market and 1st in Canada and UK.

Comparison with Facebook

What really pricked up my ears was when Markus started to talk about click-through rates and how that compared POF with Facebook. As you'll recall, Facebook supposedly has a valuation of $15 Billion currently, thanks to Microsoft's $240 investment last week. Many people are skeptical of the Facebook valuation though, because Facebook and social networks are known to be poor at generating money from ads.

Markus told me that per page view, Plentyoffish has 5-10 times the click through rate of Facebook. So by his calculations, POF's 1.2 Billion page views per month is the same as 5-10 Billion Facebook page views per month. Facebook "only" generates 40 billion page views a month and yet it has a $15 Billion valuation. But the crux of Markus' argument is that despite having about 33 times the monthly traffic of POF, Facebook's poor click-through ads should bring the valuation models closer. Markus said that "over 40% of Facebook's pageviews are image related, ads in bad positions and users just generally looking to waste time." He said that "there are only a handful of sections on the site [Facebook] that will generate good click thru rates for advertisers."

So getting down to nitty gritty metrics, Markus concluded that "Facebook is only able to generate 10 to 15 times as many clicks on ads as my site and it's valued at 15 billion. Needless to say I'm watching ad supported business model valuations very closely." What's more, some of his direct competitors - e.g. Eharmony and match.com - are apparently valued in the billions.

While Markus didn't put a figure on what PlentyOfFish is probably worth, it's clear he is thinking in Billions and not Millions. It's very hard to quantify this, but at the very least POF would be worth in the 9 figures due to its annual revenues of $10M. Not bad for a one-man company (plus a new Customer Service Rep!).

Comment from Morgan on 2007-10-29

2007-10-30T05:21:42Z

Gotta love Markus-- I love that the site is so decidedly web 1.0 and was pretty ugly for a long time, and he concentrated on the reality of revenue. When it comes to investors, I can see where you start talking all the pageviews and all that, but he's actually got real money coming through that place, something a lot of bigger name sites can't say.

Comment from Joe Duck on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T08:01:16Z

Markus and Plenty of Fish basically challenge much of the Silicon Valley mythology about the need for complex, technical, highly capitalized sites to create success. Markus created a good site with great success on a shoestring budget and with basic technical skills (but extreme cleverness). Kudos to him.

Comment from chtanxw on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T08:50:32Z

I only heard the story of POF and Markus Frind few months ago. He is one of the online success story. Markus turned a very simple and straight forward idea into a multi-million dollars buisness if not multi-billion dollars!

This is a real story of 1-man company beats many classic businesses!!!

Comment from Jack on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T09:40:10Z

This guy is something of an inspiration. Can't wait for his biography/memoirs - they'll be a fair advance offered for them, I'll bet. Perhaps not $1bn though...

Comment from Advise-Art on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T12:27:29Z

i wanna be like him !!!! i wanna do the same !!!! ahah
With his money ... he could start learning some languages and do a big website ! ...

Comment from Fish Tales on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T12:52:49Z

I'd like some info from Mr. Frind about how much he spends to make that $10K per day. It's nice to flash around big checks, but it's all hype if you spend as much as your making to generate that revenue. According to this site, Plentyoffish.com spends between $2 and $16 thousand dollars a day to bring in traffic, which would mean that net, they are close to break even.

http://spyfoo.com/Domain.aspx?d=2772079369792015773

Comment from Leigh on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T13:23:29Z

Why are Markus and his girlfriend considered one person? If they just hired someone, that makes it a three person company.

Comment from LonelyBloggers on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T13:26:21Z

Good to see a Canadian lad doing well. I'd love to replicate what POF has done... Dating websites are tough with so much competition, but gotta give it a go. Way to go Markus

Comment from Scott Clark on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T13:50:01Z

"close to break even" ????? Think about the long tail.

Even with 95% going back into ads, you are making a fortune. Plus, you're building a brand name which is a "latent" fortune. And a major ad property. And an organic authority second to none.

And of course...You can then upsell large chunks of people to products and services, add ons, etc.

Comment from W.B. McNamara on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T14:08:31Z

@Fish Tales:

Be careful how you use SpyFoo's stats: remember that they promote it as a tool to see "which keywords your competitors are buying," not "how much your competitors are spending on keyword advertising." That "daily ad budget" of $2k - $16k is a (very broad) range calculated from search term frequency and keyword value stats, and doesn't reflect how the site might cap, regularly change, or otherwise manage their keyword advertising spends.

It's absolutely true that good gross revenue numbers don't necessarily imply good bottom line numbers, but unless Frind opens his books we're all guessing -- and spyfoo isn't great data to inform our musings.

Comment from Fish Tales on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T14:25:00Z

Scott Clark: if you make $10K a day and reinvest $9500 (95%) in advertising, you're netting $180K a month. That's not a fortune; it ain't a bad living, but it's not really that big of a deal.

I would be willing to bet that Markus is probably making more than that, but still, for the purposes of accurate information, it'd be nice to get some data on how much it costs to make that much money. And then to compare it to other services like Digg or Weblogs, Inc., that make less money, but have lower traffic acquisition costs.

Of course, the real winner in all of this is Google, as they're making money on the way in and on the way out.

Comment from Thomas on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T14:41:52Z

Yeah, I went on that site a year ago or so. It's kind of a hack and not interesting. I haven't been back, but I'm sure I'm still counted as one of their users. Another bubble 2.0 baby...

Comment from Jeremy Wright on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T14:50:38Z

As several have mentioned Markus isn't (nor has he been for more than a year) a "one man show". Massive success, and he deserves every bit of it, but that this continues to get printed (when everyone knows better) is a little odd.

Comment from Philip Wilkinson on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T14:57:39Z

So - what does everyone think has been the secret of his success on POF?
Is ti SEO, the feature set, good marketing..? What does FOF that makes it more successful then the bigger competitors?

Comment from Steps To Success on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T15:46:09Z

I been to that site before.. well maybe i should go check out again for thier new changes

Comment from Steps To Success on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T15:46:38Z

I been to that site before.. well maybe i should go check out again for thier new changes

Steps To Success
Han Foong
www.hanfoong.com

Comment from G on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T16:16:45Z

I have a website with more than 250k uniques a day with >10% ad clickthro, so does it mean my website is worth half a billion?...Valuation models just based on uniques/ clickthroughs are just ridiculous.

Comment from Nascar on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T16:24:03Z

This is great for Markus and his soon to be team. Having that kind of click through rate is a valuable asset to the advertisers.

Comment from Zetto on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T16:30:20Z

To Philip Wilkinson;
I think, there's a period when people are bored of seeing the same sites all the time and time to look for something else, i guess PoF came out in such kinda time where some people thought it could be nice to have different dating platform and some of these people found PoF and told to their mates so on so on...i know it sounds weird but i can't see any other explanation of that..if he really had just a little info about web techs at the beginning i guess he had no idea about SEO.

Comment from Erich on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T16:39:31Z

Marcus is definitely making the best of the ad-generated business model. Interesting that other more well-known sites have not been able to duplicate his success. Many opportunities come to mind: craigslist, angieslist, etc. Such a simple concept: give people what they want, free, with little work required. Such a life!

Comment from Joe on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T17:11:18Z

As an entrepreneur running a one person web business, I send out a huge hooyah to Markus. Way to kick it dude. An inspiration to us all.

Comment from Tyson Williams on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T17:12:04Z

Amazing business model, simple and so profitable. I am glad to hear that someone can and does make some serious cash online. It is a proof that free does not mean no profit!

Comment from Sunil on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T17:13:34Z

Its just a HYPE...some of the link does not work at all .if you forget your password and ask it to send by mail..the page does not disply..the websites looks like the work of a child..but hell it is better than all paid sites but still its a lousy job done

Comment from Horoscop on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T17:20:37Z

Wow, this guy is incredible... he want to make 30k$ per day...

Comment from Shaze on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T17:30:29Z

180k a month!

A MONTH!

That's like over 2 million a year, do you know what I could do with 2 million a year?

Comment from Mike on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T17:39:33Z

Markus, can you be my friend?

Comment from Dustin on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T17:47:54Z

I sat next to Markus on a bus to the Google dance and was very impressed with what he built and the traffic he receives. However, making a comparison to Facebook doesn't make sense. Much of Facebook's valuation and popularity has to do with their opened up platform and strong following. Markus is certainly squeezing more money out of each visitor, but I believe Facebook hasn't cashed in on their true potential.

Comment from mek on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T17:49:03Z

YO!!

I created a community and dating website in 1999.. people meet, get married, cheat on bf/gf.. but being based in Venice, Italy I never earned an EuroCent!!

Actually once I put google ads on the website and my users were do dumb to start clicking everywhere (to make me happy I think) and I got a EVERLASTING BAN FROM GOOGLE! is there anything worst than being banned BY GOOGLE FOR EVER!? :(

Comment from Moose on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T18:01:42Z

How exactly are these companies being valued these days?

A 10M a year company being valued at over 1billion?

So the purchasing company would recoup it's investment in 100 years?

Have these idiots even seen plenty of fish?

If you're too cheap to sign up for a real dating service, to meet quality people, you're probably too cheap to buy the products that the free site advertises.

Comment from adam on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T18:22:33Z

i have heared that markus owns sexychill, is that true?

Comment from Moses Francis on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T18:33:24Z

Cool beans,amazing that it only took one person all this time to make that amount of $$

Comment from Mark Brooks on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T18:33:51Z

If Markus owned it you can be sure it would have an Alexa rank better than 1.1 million.

Comment from Nick The Geek on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T18:54:32Z

Valuation isn't just down to revenue - he has a massive list of active users - at least half a million of them - that's a captive audience for anyone to promote offers to.

Also I don't know if Markus does any regular email promotions, but if he doesn't he could probably double his current revenue.

I think the $1billion valuation might be a little on the high side, as until recently he only had a single source of income, but it's definitely worth more than a standard x times monthly revenue.

Comment from JK on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T20:12:31Z

Can we all STOP comparing sites to Facebook and then saying htat Facebook is valued at $15 billion? No one...absolutely NO ONE...values Facebook at $15 billion. Microsoft did not pay $240 million to own a piece of Facebook. They paid $240 million to extend their advertising exclusivity for two more years, and to own a piece of Facebook. MOST of that $240 million was for extending their advertising contract for two more years. Probably like $220 million of it.

Morons who don't use comon sense when it applies to the Facebook deal then get into further trouble by apply ing it to sites that are making $10 million a year and claiming that it is worth $1 billion. You see, companies generally want more than 1% return on inventments.

Comment from Bill Seitz on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T20:12:55Z

So that's a forecast of gross revenue for 2008?

(You really shouldn't talking about a business's "earnings" when you mean "revenue". "Earnings" is supposed to be more like "profit".)

Comment from Joseph Pally on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T20:27:00Z

JK is right on the money about the fake Facebook deal.

Microsoft is far smarter than what the anti-ms people tend to give it credit for.

Comment from Joseph Pally on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T20:31:37Z

If every company was valued like facebook, spidercatch.com will be worth 5B.

Let us get to reality. Look at real numbers. Project growth for 5-10 years. And get down to earth, assume there WILL be competition, other ideas, technology change, and unexpected things. Making 3million/year does not scale upto 30M/year the same way. It does not scale up to 100-200M the same way to give it a 1B valuation. There is no acceptable P/E for a dating site.

With no underlying unique technology or strength, projecting such absurd valuation is like quoting "Wikipedia" as the truth.

Comment from Anand on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T20:40:06Z

I get to hear about such websites only at a stage when they get so popular that it gets reviewed.I am really curious to know what Markus or Mark Zukerberg did in their first few months that actually got them this high, given that there were competitors who were much much bigger than them..

Richard, can u get us one such interview?

Comment from rob on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T20:59:42Z

is his revenue mostly CPC then? I thought all these social networking sites etc had CPM?

Comment from Don't Click Here on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T21:28:59Z

Maybe Markus should update his site, this is from the homepage:

What makes this even more amazing is I'm still running the entire dating site out of my apartment with no employees.

I guess people like the design free nature of this site. It really has a CS 101 feel to it, but probably 99% of his audience are not computer scientists.

Quite a bold statement:
Plentyoffish generates over 500,000 relationships a year making Plentyoffish.com the world's largest singles site.

What POF does have in its favor is data openness. Most dating sites make you login to see any information, and this lets anyone see photos, profiles and comments.

Comment from Cody on 2007-10-30

2007-10-30T22:00:33Z

Along with web 1.0 design, the name is so totally cliche that it's amazing. It works. It's part of the whole in-your-eharmonious face success of it all. Well done, Markus! You're a web hero.

Comment from TH on 2007-10-30

2007-10-31T00:34:06Z

eHarmony makes FAR more money. So why would this site be an in your face it it? Is Pepsi saying "In your face" to Coca Cola?

Comment from edwod on 2007-10-30

2007-10-31T02:13:30Z

um. if you're netting $500 a day as someone up above this post figured ($10,000 in revenue minus $9500 in expenses) you would be clearing $15,000 a month ($500 * 30 ). So in a year's time you'd make $180k, a far cry from the $180k a month the poster projected.

zThe values on these post net bubble companies are already ridiculously inflated enough; they don't need any more (erronious)help.

Comment from Ethan Bauley on 2007-10-30

2007-10-31T05:22:10Z

Why on earth did you print this?

Flushing credibility down the toilet...

Iskold for pres

Comment from Richard MacManus on 2007-10-30

2007-10-31T05:56:48Z

I thought it was an interesting story Ethan, but you can't please everyone.

I would vote for Iskold for President too tho ;-)

Comment from edris on 2007-10-31

2007-10-31T09:48:12Z

yes i've readed that he owns sexychill too

Comment from edris on 2007-10-31

2007-10-31T09:49:38Z

its 1.1m alexa i think coz he block most of the alexa users as i read in many blogs

Comment from Zoltan on 2007-10-31

2007-10-31T10:40:53Z

$1B is definitely a lot, in my opinion it is closer to $200 - $500M, not more.
If POF worth $1B, my free dating site www.onelovenet.com worth at least $15 - 20M. Anyone interested? :)

Comment from stef on 2007-10-31

2007-10-31T12:31:44Z

i think this is a far greater success story than FB. this guy is chilled out, mature and very smart to be able to run this on so few servers

in a a thread on wmw about a year back marcus said he never spent any money at all on advertising. a vidcast on another site confirms this. what's funny is a very old thread by marcus where he goes "guys im getting X CTR a month with adsense - is that good?"

Comment from John on 2007-10-31

2007-10-31T13:38:47Z

This story is very motivating. It's great to see that one guy can accomplish so much with consistent effort.

Time to put the thinking cap on...

Comment from Dav on 2007-10-31

2007-10-31T13:46:05Z

This is a great story. My buddies tried to do the same thing (as a side project) and launched www.maybehot.com. it is a copy-cat site of HotorNot concept and they havent been able to get much traction. Any suggestions?

Comment from Fionn on 2007-10-31

2007-10-31T16:58:18Z

I would settle for $15k a month salary. No staff, no overheads, no workers comp, we worked with a dating site 4 years ago with no budget so we quit. I wish I had seen the opportunity then. Good for Markus, it seems the web success stories have become big big business and its nice to see a Mom and Pop success story for a change. :)

Comment from Timo Paloheimo on 2007-10-31

2007-10-31T21:16:46Z

This case is very inspiring. It's good to know that sometimes all it takes is a good idea and a creative execution even though some resources might be missing.

Comment from zithromax as treatment for chlamydia on 2007-11-01

2007-11-01T09:46:35Z

This webpage loads very fast
What hosting provider do you use?

Comment from jfdkfjk on 2007-11-01

2007-11-01T18:42:37Z

kdjfdkjdkfjdkjdkjdkjdkjdkjiererr[qri

Comment from Duane on 2007-11-01

2007-11-01T22:29:25Z

regarding post #7: "Why are Markus and his girlfriend considered one person?"

Silly Leigh, don't you realize that his girlfriend constitutes his "better half?" And since 1/2 + 1/2 = 1.0,
there you have it - one employee. ,grin>

Comment from Duane on 2007-11-01

2007-11-01T22:34:39Z

I must admit - reading about Markus's success as a predominantly one-person company is inspiring.

Kinda makes me want to emulate him.

Hmmm, I wonder if plentyofmath.com would fly? (There's something absolutely sexy about those integral curves, don't y'all agree?

Comment from Sherwin Shao on 2007-11-03

2007-11-03T19:54:31Z

What's most amazing about Markus's success is that it was completely viral. Almost as amazing is that he never intended it to be a business, that he just used it to learn ASP.NET.

Now back to thinking about viral marketing for http://helpglobe.com.

Comment from Mahadzir b Atan on 2007-11-04

2007-11-05T04:11:01Z

As expected I agree when fish is related to good harmless sacred and clean intentions. Rather than calling women chix the messg is clear. Carry on You Rock
courtesy of www.bomohforex.com

Comment from Pierce on 2007-11-06

2007-11-06T23:57:12Z

To Fish Tales:

He has said he has never spent a penny on advertising infact his inital start up costs was a DSL/Cable connection on a static IP (yes, thats right FROM HOME!)

What he is doing is very cleaver, he is manipulating the success of web2.0 bubble and is riding on it. He is in a great position at the moment, even if the whole dot com bubble bursts again, it wont matter much to him as his running costs are minimal. All that will change is his earnings from AdSense.

And by doing things like that he is getting ever more back links on the internet. How many people are going to blog about this which links to POF?

His marketing is smart, he doesnt pay for it and its written by people who want to know about the guy and the $900,000 cad google cheque. Hes done interviews for microsoft because they were facinated about how much traffic a single iis server can handle.

Anybody who is into adsense also looks at POF because it runs ONLY adsense. His ECPM sucks its at less than $1, but i assume its much better than what myspace gets (about 12c ecpm.. i think) who last year did 40bn page views a month. So if his high ecpm continues theres no reason as to why he shouldnt earn what he projected.

Pierce

Comment from Jenny Pretty on 2007-11-09

2007-11-09T18:26:16Z

Hello,
Every time I read the similar article about plentyoffish, I am impressed about Mr. Markus. I already read some similar articles like this about him before but want to read more and more. He is so smart.

Thanks for sharing.
Jenny.