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  <id>tag:,2008:/1/tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3330-</id>
  <updated>2008-05-09T18:08:31Z</updated>
  <title>Comments for Google Reader&apos;s New Recommendations Exciting, but Insufficient</title>
  
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  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3330</id>
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    <link rel="service.edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-atom.cgi/weblog/blog_id=1/entry_id=3330" title="Google Reader's New Recommendations Exciting, but Insufficient" />
    <published>2007-11-30T05:11:22Z</published>
    <updated>2007-12-16T23:08:31Z</updated>
    <title>Google Reader&apos;s New Recommendations Exciting, but Insufficient</title>
    <summary>The Google Reader team announced tonight that the wildly popular online feed reader now recommends additional feeds to users based on our subscription lists, web browsing history and &quot;more.&quot; It&apos;s a very big day for one reason - simple recommendation is the low hanging fruit of data mining. May knowledge workers rejoice. I love information,...</summary>
    <author>
      <name>Marshall Kirkpatrick</name>
      <uri>http://www.readwriteweb.com</uri>
    </author>
    
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      <![CDATA[<p><img src="http://www.readwriteweb.com/googrnolabs.jpg" align="left" hspace="5px" vspace="5px">The <a href="http://google.com/reader">Google Reader</a> team <a href="http://googlereader.blogspot.com/2007/11/attack-of-interns-recommendations-and.html">announced tonight</a> that the wildly popular online feed reader now recommends additional feeds to users based on our subscription lists, web browsing history and "more." </p><p> It's a very big day for one reason - simple recommendation is the low hanging fruit of data mining.  May <a href="http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/11/29/google-reader-gets-recommendations-drag-and-drop/">knowledge workers rejoice</a>.  I love information, I love discovering new high-value sources and <em>the signal-to-noise ratio in a good recommendation engine can be a real competitive advantage</em> over those who don't have access to one.  I want to see the era of data get started and I want to see it get started right.
</p><img src="http://www.readwriteweb.com/images/greadrec.jpg" align="right" hspace="5px" vspace="5px"><h2>I Thought You Were Going to Recommend Me Some Feeds</h2><p>
That said, I'm not feeling the love here.  First, Google Reader seems stuck at 20 recommendations.  It's got 1565 of my RSS subscriptions, thousands of Gmail messages (32k unread ones, in fact), several Google Custom Search Egnines, my GCal life history, search history and more I'm sure - all tied to my Google Account and <strong>all it can give me is 20 new sources?</strong>  I've asked others and they aren't seeing any more.  20 looks like the limit and that's just silly.  There is a world of recommended feeds that Google could suggest based on what it knows about me and what do I get?  20 feeds?  (And how many of us just got told we should subscribe to Ross Mayfield's blog? It's your lucky day, Ross, I think a lot of us did.)
</p><p>
How about some other Google Readers whose shared items might be of interest to me?  How about some cool custom search engines I might like, or iGoogle widgets or public Google calendars that might suit my interests?
</p><h2>I Thought We Were Openly Social</h2><p>
How about some standards-based profiling, using what's emerging as the leading standard - <a href="http://apml.org">APML</a> - so I can be treated with the respect I deserve after all the use of Google services I've engaged in, instead of being expected to wonder at the marvelous black box that gave me 20 recommendations and no access to my own aggregate data that those recommendations were derived from?  How about some of that, Google - that's what <a href="http://newsgator.com">Newsgator</a> and <a href="http://bloglines.com">Bloglines</a> are both moving towards.  Everyone from  OAuth to OpenID likes to say they smelled a fart about Google considering support for their protocol, but here the product has come to market and where's the communication about our Social reading being Open?  I'm not seeing it.
</p>]]>
      <![CDATA[<h2>Are You Sure You'd Recommend Adding More Feeds?</h2><p>
Those competitors, especially the Newsgator desktop feed readers, can also handle my 1500+ feeds without crying like a baby.  Google Reader gets hung up so often that I wouldn't use it at all if it weren't for its having the best mobile interface available.  Time and again tonight, in response to my public complaints through other channels, I'm hearing people tell me that products like Newsgator's and <a href="http://attensa.com">Attensa</a>, desktop apps, are the way to go for heavy feed lifting.  I read my most important hundred feeds through <a href="http://netvibes.com">other</a> <a href="http://zaptxt.com">means</a> - I need something sturdy for reading everything I'm subscribed to.
</p><h2>These Are Great Problems to Solve</h2><p>
I want a great recommendation engine, in fact I want one on every platform I bring data to. Two years ago I used <a href="http://furl.net">Furl.net</a> for my social bookmarking and it told me, "based on what you've bookmarked, we would recommend you check out the following other Furl users with similar archives..."  It recommended people like <a href="http://libraryclips.blogsome.com/">John Tropea</a>, <a href="http://contentious.com/">Amy Gahran</a>, <a href="ttp://www.furl.net/members/fichter ">Darlene Fichter</a> and more.  Those are librarians and other super-nerds that I still subscribe to today. In a sea of 1500+ RSS feeds they bring me pure gold.
</p><p>
Whether you're someone concerned about information overload or, like me, you just want more streams of pure gold coming into your inbox - recommendation engines are going to be big in the fast-approaching future.  They don't account for our need to expand our tastes, but they do have huge potential in making our process of discovering more content and sources that we already like - and what's just a touch different - far more powerful.
</p><p>
This Google Reader announcement is an awful tease, though, and without data portability, improved quality of service and real Social Openness, we're going to get...</p>]]>
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  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3330-comment:27347</id>
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    <title>Comment from Tinu on 2007-11-29</title>
    <author>
        <name>Tinu</name>
        <uri>http://www.freetraffictip.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.freetraffictip.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>So digging your bluntness. I'm getting disappointed with a lot of the recent things that are supposed to suggest things I would like as well, and it's not just online. It's really put "my friend said to try it" back at the top of the list. Which is good for bloggers, definitely good for my business, but I worry that we're getting to the point that the internet is starting to slowly revert into being less useful the more automation runs it.</p>

<p>Why can't Google pull from any of the Open Social partners and use my habits (with all permission and respect for privacy and all that) to learn my habits and predict what I want from, say, my tagging rituals?</p>

<p>Maybe I'm asking for too much too soon?</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-11-30T06:25:05Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3330-comment:27348</id>
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    <title>Comment from Chris Saad on 2007-11-29</title>
    <author>
        <name>Chris Saad</name>
        <uri>http://www.faradaymedia.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.faradaymedia.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>Tinu, that's what Marshall means by APML support - APML would allow just this scenario by allowing you to share your interests between your trusted apps/services.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-11-30T06:59:27Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3330-comment:27349</id>
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    <title>Comment from Elias Bizannes on 2007-11-29</title>
    <author>
        <name>Elias Bizannes</name>
        <uri>http://liako.biz</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://liako.biz">
        <![CDATA[<p>Boo hoo Google - you obviously didn't read my post that was linked from a couple of the big blogs, on how you can use APML to personalise feed reading.</p>

<p><a href="http://liako.biz/2007/10/how-google-reader-can-finally-start-making-money/" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://liako.biz/2007/10/how-google-reader-can-finally-start-making-money/" rel="nofollow">http://liako.biz/2007/10/how-google-reader-can-finally-start-making-money/</a></a></p>

<p>However I will say it's a good start and the hard working team there shouldn't be bagged too heavily...I'll be waiting though. And no, it's not just an RSS power-user issue; personalisation and attention management affects *everyone*</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-11-30T06:59:45Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3330-comment:27350</id>
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    <title>Comment from Noemail on 2007-11-29</title>
    <author>
        <name>Noemail</name>
        <uri></uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[<p>Attention profiling is early days and no one seems to do it for real ... only claim to do it ... so I imagine Google is not different.</p>

<p>We are talking about a lot of processing for a single user to find recommendations ... most of which you wont like ... so 20 is more than enough ... </p>

<p>I figure most users are not even going to use this feature so why would they spend extra cycle on it ...</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-11-30T07:51:24Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3330-comment:27351</id>
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    <title>Comment from Luke Razzell on 2007-11-30</title>
    <author>
        <name>Luke Razzell</name>
        <uri>http://www.i-together.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.i-together.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>Marshall,</p>

<p>On the subject of feed recommendations, Blog Friends brings you any number, derived from your social/author preference network and your topics of interest. At the same time, we help you follow your favourite feeds in depth.</p>

<p><a href="http://apps.facebook.com/blogfriends" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://apps.facebook.com/blogfriends" rel="nofollow">http://apps.facebook.com/blogfriends</a></a></p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-11-30T08:19:44Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3330-comment:27352</id>
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    <title>Comment from Elf on 2007-11-30</title>
    <author>
        <name>Elf</name>
        <uri>http://www.createlf.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.createlf.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>Google is getting better at teasing it seems, the whole OpenSocial hype and then these improvements to the google reader which are clearly not sufficient and competitors like bloglines already offer better results. I cannot understand any rationale behind the 20 recommended feeds limit either, except for the fact that google is taking it slow and trying out things before actually implementing them.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-11-30T08:25:24Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3330-comment:27353</id>
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    <title>Comment from Vishal Sharma on 2007-11-30</title>
    <author>
        <name>Vishal Sharma</name>
        <uri>http://sharmavishal.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://sharmavishal.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>The response for drag and drop is too slow. Ajax component needs to be be fixed.<br />
Bloglines has far better response for drag and drop</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-11-30T09:21:05Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3330-comment:27354</id>
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    <title>Comment from Antonina on 2007-11-30</title>
    <author>
        <name>Antonina</name>
        <uri></uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[<p>One rss recomendation engine I've heard of some days ago is Mindity. A combination of desktop rss reader and social network. <a href="http://www.mindity.com" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://www.mindity.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.mindity.com</a></a></p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-11-30T10:22:53Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3330-comment:27355</id>
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    <title>Comment from Mr. Gunn on 2007-11-30</title>
    <author>
        <name>Mr. Gunn</name>
        <uri>http://synthesis.williamgunn.org</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://synthesis.williamgunn.org">
        <![CDATA[<p>The only readers for heavy-duty use(100+ feeds, 10^5+ items) would be RSSBandit, Sharpreader, or the one you're using.  Nothing web-based or browser-integrated has been able to handle my subscription list without becoming too sluggish too quickly. </p>

<p>Oh, yeah, and I HATE HATE HATE the prweb feed spam.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-11-30T17:15:52Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3330-comment:27356</id>
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    <title>Comment from Ross Mayfield on 2007-11-30</title>
    <author>
        <name>Ross Mayfield</name>
        <uri>http://ross.typepad.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://ross.typepad.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>You mean to tell me there are people who haven't subscribed to my blog? </p>

<p>:-P</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-11-30T17:23:51Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3330-comment:27357</id>
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    <title>Comment from Scott Niesen on 2007-11-30</title>
    <author>
        <name>Scott Niesen</name>
        <uri>http://www.attensa.com/blogs/attensa</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.attensa.com/blogs/attensa">
        <![CDATA[<p>Marshall - Thanks for the pointer to Attensa. The question I have is do people want recommendations for more feeds or would they rather have recommendations for specific, highly relevant articles tuned to their multiple personas (work,play,family, shopping?</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-11-30T18:49:35Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3330-comment:27358</id>
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    <title>Comment from Jeff Nolan on 2007-11-30</title>
    <author>
        <name>Jeff Nolan</name>
        <uri>http://www.jeffnolan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.jeffnolan.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>Tinu, the reason is that relevance is a hard nut to crack. If it were as simple as keyword matching then everyone would do it, but matching to your preferences is only part of the challenge, scoring the results in light of a massive amount of content that is published each day is daunting.</p>

<p>I work for NewsGator and in our datacenter we poll 1.8 million feeds hourly, resulting in 7 million items of content daily, and growing.</p>

<p>The APML initiative that Chris references is important because it takes a first step at achieving reliable relevancy by putting your feed database and behavioral db in one place rather than trying to synchronize the two.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-11-30T19:00:20Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3330-comment:27359</id>
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    <title>Comment from Darlene Fichter on 2007-11-30</title>
    <author>
        <name>Darlene Fichter</name>
        <uri>http://library2.usask.ca/~fichter/blog_on_the_side/</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://library2.usask.ca/~fichter/blog_on_the_side/">
        <![CDATA[<p>Thanks for mentioning my Furl feed as on the sources of good sites.  You've missed the "h" in the http so you might want to tweak that.</p>

<p>I'm always looking for great recommendations too. It's interesting that Furl was able to do that most of the time, but most of the other sites that try to recommend are off the mark.  </p>

<p>Timeliness is a factor - what I'm reading/following/writing/bookmarking "NOW" vs. 3 months or 6 months or a year ago matters -- the emerging areas. This is something that will all of their data they should be able to mind and spot trends.</p>

<p>Hopefully Google Reader will improve.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-12-01T04:08:17Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3330-comment:27360</id>
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    <title>Comment from Furl.net Users Group on 2007-12-02</title>
    <author>
        <name>Furl.net Users Group</name>
        <uri>http://groups.google.com/group/furl-users</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://groups.google.com/group/furl-users">
        <![CDATA[<p>There is an unofficial mutual-support users' group for furl.</p>

<p><a href="http://groups.google.com/group/furl-users" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://groups.google.com/group/furl-users" rel="nofollow">http://groups.google.com/group/furl-users</a></a></p>

<p>You're invited to join.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-12-03T04:54:13Z</published>
  </entry>

</feed>