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  <id>tag:,2008:/1/tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3389-</id>
  <updated>2008-09-24T12:02:53Z</updated>
  <title>Comments for How to Get Good Offshore Developers</title>
  
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    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3389</id>
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    <link rel="service.edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-atom.cgi/weblog/blog_id=1/entry_id=3389" title="How to Get Good Offshore Developers" />
    <published>2007-12-10T03:38:55Z</published>
    <updated>2007-12-16T23:08:35Z</updated>
    <title>How to Get Good Offshore Developers</title>
    <summary> digg_url = &apos;http://digg.com/programming/How_to_Get_Good_Offshore_Developers&apos;; digg_bgcolor = &apos;#ffffff&apos;; digg_skin = &apos;compact&apos;; This article is part of a regular series by Matt Rogers, co-founder of Aroxo, on the topic of bootstrapping a startup. See also his previous posts: How to bootstrap your startup and How to create a web app. A really effective way of bootstrapping your...</summary>
    <author>
      <name>Matt Rogers</name>
      
    </author>
    
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      <![CDATA[<p><font style="float: right"><script type="text/javascript">
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<script src="http://digg.com/tools/diggthis.js" type="text/javascript"></script></font><i>This article is part of a regular series by <a href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/about_mattrogers.php">Matt Rogers</a>, co-founder of <a href="http://www.aroxo.com">Aroxo</a>, on the topic of bootstrapping a startup. See also his previous posts: <a href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/how_to_bootstrap_your_startup.php">How to bootstrap your startup</a> and <a href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/how_to_create_a_web_app.php">How to create a web app</a>.</i></p>



<p>A really effective way of bootstrapping your start-up is to offshore and outsource your development. But doing this also carries risks, how can you be sure that you are going to get a developer who'll see it through and has the right experience? This post lays out an effective process to find the right developer.</p>



<p>From starting the search, to the first developer writing code, should take around 3-5 months and there may be further delays whilst you complete your documentation. In this article I'll talk you through what you should be doing at each stage, and what the objective of each stage should be. Here's an overview of the process:</p>


<ul>

	<li>Build a <strong>long list</strong> of development companies</li>

	<li><strong>NDA</strong> all the companies on the long-list</li>

	<li>Issue a <strong>Request for Information</strong> (RFI)</li>

	<li>Analyse responses and <strong>short-list</strong> the developers</li>

	<li>Issue a <strong>Request for Quotation</strong> (RFQ)</li>

	<li>Analyse responses and select a <strong>preferred vendor</strong> and a <strong>spare</strong></li>

	<li><strong>Negotiate contract</strong> with preferred vendor</li>

	<li><strong>Commence development</strong> based on your documentation</li>

</ul>


<p>This is a long process, and therefore I've split it up into 4 sections. These will be posted each week for the next four weeks. Regular readers of this series can relax: the whole lot has been written in advance, so there won't be any month long gaps in between!</p>]]>
      <![CDATA[<p>Finding a great development company is one of the most important decisions your company will make. Changing developers mid-way through a development is near impossible and so it is important that you select a company which you are confident has the ability to see it through. The purpose of this 8-step process is to stack the odds in your favor by finding out as much as possible about the development company before you sign the contract.</p>



<p>At several stages I've included sample documentation to give you more guidance on what should be included. You can download these examples from the <a href="http://www.aroxo.com/documentation">documentation bank</a> on <a href="http://www.aroxo.com">Aroxo</a>.</p>



<p>Before we start, one word of advice. Running a vendor selection process will involve giving a large number of developers bad news (and only one company good news). When I first started doing this I found the process of giving bad news quite unpleasant. It is, but it is still important to do it. Vendors are used to receiving rejections, so they tend to take it more easily than expected and I also find that giving the bad news, along with some personalised feedback, is always much appreciated.</p>



<p><strong>Step 1: Build a long-list</strong></p>



<p>Before we start populating a long-list, it is worth spending a few minutes getting properly organised, as running a vendor selection process involves a lot of time, organisation and communication. I find it easiest to run these off a spreadsheet. There's a sample vendor dashboard included in the <a href="http://www.aroxo.com/documentation">documentation bank</a>.</p>



<p>Building a long list involves populating this dashboard. The aim is to get 20-30 companies into the dashboard that satisfy your broad requirements for the type of system you want to build. You want to make sure that each company has:</p>


<ul>

	<li>Experience in building the type of system you're looking for (if you think your system is entirely new, it almost certainly isn't, there will be parallels which you can look for - even if those are purely functional elements)</li>

	<li>Experience working with start-ups</li>

	<li>Offices somewhere in the world where you are happy doing business</li>

	<li>Experience in the technology you want your system built in (if you don't have a preference, then ignore this)</li>

</ul>


<p>By far and away the hardest of these objectives to meet is the first. You may need to contact many companies to determine whether they have built a similar application to the one you're looking for.</p>



<p>In order to find companies, there are a few tricks you can employ:</p>


<ul>

	<li>Use your network: ask anyone you know who works in the software industry for 2-3 development company recommendations</li>

	<li>Use referral companies to provide connections and act as a filter</li>

	<li>Use associations to help pinpoint development companies</li>

	<li>Use tools like <a href="http://www.elance.com">eLance</a>, <a href="http://www.scriptlance.com">Scriptlance</a> and <a href="http://www.rentacoder.com">Rentacoder</a> to find developers</li>

	<li>Use Google to help find companies</li>

	<li>When you've found a company you like, do a reverse search for their homepage on Google to see if they belong to any associations with links to other companies</li>

</ul>


<p>You may need to look through a large number before you've found 20-30 companies which can meet the 4 requirements set out above.</p>



<p><strong>Step 2: NDA everyone</strong></p>



<p>You're a start-up (I'll return to this point later), so an NDA offers no protection. If you've got funds to sue a company then, frankly, they would be better spent fixing the mistake with a new developer. However, it is still essential that you NDA all the vendors, even though you are not going to be providing them with any confidential information (other than of your existence, just yet).</p>



<p>First thing you'll need is an actual NDA. There are plenty you can download for free on the web, so I've not provided one. Read it to make sure that you are comfortable with everything included in it. If you've selected a lawyer at this stage, ask them to provide an NDA, but don't pay them to write out a new one.</p>



<p>Email it to all the developers on your long-list and ask them to fax or scan signed copies back; and make sure there's a deadline for return in your email. When you receive one back, open up the Vendor Dashboard and update it so that you don't forget you've received it. Then print it out and file it.</p>



<p>When you hit the deadline, ignore any further submissions. If the development company can't meet this simple deadline. they are not going to meet any further deadlines.</p>



<p>In next week's post I'll detail how to write and issue an RFI; and then short-list your developers.</p>]]>
    </content>
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  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3389-comment:27937</id>
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    <title>Comment from Mohasin on 2007-12-09</title>
    <author>
        <name>Mohasin</name>
        <uri>http://mohasinz.blogspot.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://mohasinz.blogspot.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>Great reference!! One of the factors while offshoring a project it to look at how much process oriented a particular vendor is. For example, most of the Tier-1 service companies in India like Wipro Technologies, Infosys, HCL, etc. are very much process-oriented. It makes a great deal of difference to the success of your project/product when working with a highly-process oriented vendor.</p>

<p>Also, You can look at the present client√®le to judge their experience in the specific domain to which you product belongs.</p>

<p>Once you have shortlisted a particular vendor, you would have to decide on which kind of billing model you would want to choose. Usually, you will find the TnM (Time and Money) model where every offshore engineer gets billed every month until the duration of the project or a FPP (Fixed Price Project) where you pay a fixed price irrespective of the offshore team size. FPP will work well for shorted duration projects. But usually, Service companies/vendors will give you greater discounts in TnM, especially if you agree to set up the offshore development center within their premises.</p>

<p>An other model of offshoring is that, instead of searching for a service provider/vendor, you may want to setup a branch/subsidary of your company in a different geography. This branch/subsidary can either do full-fledged development or can manage the vendors to whom the project is ultimately outsourced.</p>

<p>Looking forward to reading the rest of the series.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-12-10T06:07:30Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3389-comment:27938</id>
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    <title>Comment from Jack on 2007-12-10</title>
    <author>
        <name>Jack</name>
        <uri></uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[<p>Great post, thanks.  I'm launching a start up tomorrow that was built by third party, offshore developers.  It's not a method I'd have used by choice - sometimes you feel worryingly out of touch with progress - but if you're bootstrapping it's the only way to go.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-12-10T09:29:22Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3389-comment:27939</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3389" type="text/html" href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/how_to_get_good_offshore_developers.php"/>
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    <title>Comment from Matt on 2007-12-10</title>
    <author>
        <name>Matt</name>
        <uri>http://www.aroxo.com/blog/mattr/index.php</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.aroxo.com/blog/mattr/index.php">
        <![CDATA[<p>Thanks Jack. What's your start-up called? You may as well get a free link in!</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-12-10T09:54:49Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3389-comment:27940</id>
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    <title>Comment from allen stern on 2007-12-10</title>
    <author>
        <name>allen stern</name>
        <uri>http://www.centernetworks.com/</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.centernetworks.com/">
        <![CDATA[<p>i will have a longer reply later but if you plan to use offshoring, make sure your firm is not a spammer.</p>

<p>my htmlcenter forums get pounded with offshore spam daily. here's one I just received - I have removed the link to the spammer.<br />
<a href="http://forums.htmlcenter.com/showthread.php?t=4322" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://forums.htmlcenter.com/showthread.php?t=4322" rel="nofollow">http://forums.htmlcenter.com/showthread.php?t=4322</a></a></p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-12-10T11:14:35Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3389-comment:27941</id>
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    <title>Comment from Dan Rogers on 2007-12-10</title>
    <author>
        <name>Dan Rogers</name>
        <uri>http://www.goforads.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.goforads.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>Matt one may just go to guru.com or elance and do that all with the piece of mind too. These sites provide ratings and history of vendor.<br />
- Dan | <a href="http://www.goforads.com" rel="nofollow">goforAds.com - Free Classifieds</a></p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-12-10T11:34:39Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3389-comment:27942</id>
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    <title>Comment from Dan Rogers on 2007-12-10</title>
    <author>
        <name>Dan Rogers</name>
        <uri>http://www.goforads.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.goforads.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>hey I just missed it you have mentioned about scriptlance and all. But if you use elance or guru.com you dont need to do so much it cuts your job to half. You get trusted providers etc.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-12-10T11:36:05Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3389-comment:27943</id>
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    <title>Comment from Matthew Griffin on 2007-12-10</title>
    <author>
        <name>Matthew Griffin</name>
        <uri>http://bitsonewmedia.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://bitsonewmedia.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>I've used elance.com from both sides‚Äîas a buyer and a seller. It's a great way to get the job done. Its most attractive feature is the eBay-like rating and comment system for developers. It keeps you from picking a dud.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-12-10T13:09:26Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3389-comment:27944</id>
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    <title>Comment from chrisco on 2007-12-10</title>
    <author>
        <name>chrisco</name>
        <uri>http://www.buzzpal.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.buzzpal.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>Looking forward to the rest of the series, Matt.  And I liked that PDF over here <a href="http://www.aroxo.com/documentation/rfi.pdf" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://www.aroxo.com/documentation/rfi.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.aroxo.com/documentation/rfi.pdf</a></a> but it is a PDF.  A Word version would be much more useful.  Please post.  Thanks!</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-12-10T13:20:49Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3389-comment:27945</id>
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    <title>Comment from Cosmin Ghiu on 2007-12-10</title>
    <author>
        <name>Cosmin Ghiu</name>
        <uri>http://cosminghiu.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://cosminghiu.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>Matt:</p>

<p>Great post. As a professional who has worked extensively in the "best shore" strategy of having a development company here in the States and utilizing offshore developers in Easter Europe and elsewhere, your post is well written and true.</p>

<p>Looking forward to more.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-12-10T13:35:31Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3389-comment:27946</id>
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    <title>Comment from Shanti Braford on 2007-12-10</title>
    <author>
        <name>Shanti Braford</name>
        <uri>http://onwebapps.com/</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://onwebapps.com/">
        <![CDATA[<p>If you have an initial development budget in the $5-10k range, I would also suggest taking a look at both offshore & onshore development, combined.</p>

<p>I always remember working with a client who had both me (here in the states) and offshore teams working on the same project.</p>

<p>It was a bit strange, but I got the feeling he just enjoyed being able to chat with me on the phone in plain english and layout what he needed done.</p>

<p>Contrast this to spending 3 hours on a design document, then still having back & forth with an offshore team for clarification on what exactly you mean re: some areas of the doc.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-12-10T14:38:02Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3389-comment:27947</id>
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    <title>Comment from Jonathon Hibbard on 2007-12-10</title>
    <author>
        <name>Jonathon Hibbard</name>
        <uri></uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[<p>Seriously, I hope you lose your job for this.  Telling people it's a good idea to use offshore developers?  Seriously man, what is wrong with you?  Do you seriously want developers in the US to not have a job anymore?</p>

<p>I'll never read this website again.  You just lost a subscriber.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-12-10T15:09:45Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3389-comment:27948</id>
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    <title>Comment from Dan on 2007-12-10</title>
    <author>
        <name>Dan</name>
        <uri></uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[<p>I've had a development consulting firm for a long time, and been on both sides of the NDA many times... let me just say this from experience:</p>

<p>The NDA is only a starting point for problem resolution in the case of IP theft/leaks.  In other words, it doesn't inherently prevent theft OR use of your ideas & IP, it only allows you to point to your document and say "Hey you can't do that, see, we have a signed NDA!"  Then the *real* fun begins.</p>

<p>It's hard enough enforcing an NDA or contract with a local company (local meaning same country, not necessarily in the same postal code!)  But try living in Los Angeles and enforcing an NDA with a company in Moscow or Bangalore or Beijing... the NDA is useless.  Unless you're familiar with international law and have the stomach for dealing with this type of problem, you should also contemplate the potential pitfalls and hazards of throwing something over the wall when the wall is 100 ft high and 5000 miles away.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-12-10T15:10:39Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3389-comment:27949</id>
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    <title>Comment from Andrew on 2007-12-10</title>
    <author>
        <name>Andrew</name>
        <uri>http://www.idiomag.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.idiomag.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>agreed with Dan - NDAs do not offer any/much protection when using off-shore developers. Almost not worth bothering with. Even in the same country, it only means you can choose to spend thousands on trying to get some recompense.</p>

<p>and re point 1: to do this properly, it is so time-consuming that using a slightly more expensive on-shore developer probably works out better.</p>

<p>i certainly think that for initial prototypes and easily manageable development modules that off-shore teams should be considered. but its usually a false economy.</p>

<p>for me, personal recommendation to get immediately to a couple of options is still 10x better than going through the process of listing RFQs etc. in the past i have used several off-shore firms that haven't been any good at all - but in terms of what has worked for us:</p>

<p>we have used <a href="http://www.thrusites.com" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://www.thrusites.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.thrusites.com</a></a> in the UK - who have been excellent - used to working with startups and very cost-effective. </p>

<p>we have used <a href="http://arsthanea.com/" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://arsthanea.com/" rel="nofollow">http://arsthanea.com/</a></a> in Poland for Flash work - exceptional team, much better value than top UK Flash agencies that we have also tried.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-12-10T15:39:17Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3389-comment:27950</id>
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    <title>Comment from Eric on 2007-12-10</title>
    <author>
        <name>Eric</name>
        <uri></uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[<p>Yeah, NDA offers no real protection, only a start for recourse. Good luck getting them overseas!</p>

<p>Development has changed; it's more efficient to get one good US developer using modern tools to get the site done.  It's really so much easier there is 80% less code required these days (actual metrics from real projects).  It's about smart development not a bunch of communication overhead dealing w/ overseas developers.  this is 5-10 year old advice.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-12-10T17:55:05Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3389-comment:27951</id>
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    <title>Comment from David on 2007-12-10</title>
    <author>
        <name>David</name>
        <uri>http://www.vodkafish.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.vodkafish.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>I've worked with a few offshore developers.  I tend to stick to individuals over companies or groups now.  Any time I've worked with a group or company they've hounded me for additional work to the point where I've had to block emails from a few of them.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-12-10T18:34:06Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3389-comment:27952</id>
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    <title>Comment from vikster on 2007-12-11</title>
    <author>
        <name>vikster</name>
        <uri></uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[<p>Great post. I work for an offshore development company. Having worked on a number of such projects - IMO, onsite-offshore model is best. Its easy both for you and the development company to communicate. It of course, increases the cost a bit since offshore co will charge you more for deploying staff onshore but totally worth it. Most of the Big offshore companies like Infosys, Wipro, TCS, HCL etc execute cost efficient projects in this mode. Besides in TnM mode, you can control ramp up and down of the resources. companies also allow you to interview their employees before getting them on board.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-12-11T14:41:32Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3389-comment:27953</id>
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    <title>Comment from Steve Robertson on 2007-12-11</title>
    <author>
        <name>Steve Robertson</name>
        <uri></uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[<p>I have been using services of offshore programmers for my projects.Some of the ways i use to ascertain the credentials of any potential programmer are:</p>

<p>1. Do a thorough search on the individual using every possible options like google,forums,networking sites etc before hiring.It pays! I also insist on references from previous clients and cross check before hiring somebody.</p>

<p>Basically it boils down to experience and your exposure to outsourcing before one gets an idea as how to go about finding right talent overseas.I have been using the programming services of this girl from India for the past 1 year and found her amazing to work with.Exceptional talent- <a href="http://www.vantrix.net" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://www.vantrix.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.vantrix.net</a></a></p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-12-11T14:43:51Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3389-comment:27954</id>
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    <title>Comment from Thorsten on 2007-12-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>Thorsten</name>
        <uri>http://www.vision22.net</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.vision22.net">
        <![CDATA[<p>Good start.... </p>

<p>I would also suggest to have a look at linkedin and xing for recommendations about the companies and the background of their employees. Most companies in this sector are somehow represented there.</p>

<p>An other thing I would request at a certain point are code samples. Of course you need some developer at hand which you can trust for estimating the work.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-12-13T09:09:13Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:72.47.210.69,2007://1.3389-comment:42596</id>
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    <title>Comment from klempner.wordpress.com on 2007-12-18</title>
    <author>
        <name>klempner.wordpress.com</name>
        <uri>http://klempner.wordpress.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://klempner.wordpress.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>Good overview of the preparation for the offshore project. How about managing the process? I have some experience working with offshore companies from India, Argentina, and Russia. Here is my opinion on this issue<br />
<a href="http://klempner.wordpress.com/2007/11/29/offshore-hard-or-stay-home/" rel="nofollow">http://klempner.wordpress.com/2007/11/29/offshore-hard-or-stay-home/</a><br />
</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2007-12-18T14:11:14Z</published>
  </entry>

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