Comments for NBC Drops Silverlight, Runs Back to Adobe for Flash

NBC Drops Silverlight, Runs Back to Adobe for Flash

2008-09-06T18:43:50Z

NBC seems to be having a change of heart this week. The network recently wrapped up their streaming of the Olympics using Microsoft's Silverlight technology. However if you tuned in for this week's NFL season opener, NBC was using Adobe's Flash technology instead of Silverlight. Making some do a double take, here's a look at why NBC left Silverlight in a flash (pun intended).

]]> As we stated, NBC took a chance on Silverlight to stream the Olympic ceremonies for online and mobile viewers. While this was a great opportunity for Microsoft to promote its Silverlight platform, it wasn't enough for NBC. According to SAI,

"Microsoft, meanwhile, said that during the Olympics, 40 million US to visitors NBCOlympics.com didn't yet have Silverlight installed."

NBC has already begun switching back to Adobe Flash for the start of the NFL season. Yet their efforts don't seem to be paying off at the moment with reports of video playback for the NFL season starter game being too horrible to watch.

Not a Good Look

We all know that at least 90% of computer users have Adobe Flash installed. It's easy to see why NBC would want to switch back. The partnership between Microsoft and NBC was likely more beneficial to Microsoft in the end. One of the downsides for NBC was that users tend to become either wary or lazy about downloading new extensions for a website. This is especially true if the website was working just fine with previous extensions only days before. However, with a rocky start to switching back, NBC online sports fans are probably wondering if it's even worth the effort anymore.

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Comment from Dainis Graveris on 2008-09-06

2008-09-06T19:11:19Z

Huh, I really love SilverLight even if I don't use it, but yeah, I am sure FLASH and Adobe will still continue to dominate in that field.

Comment from theharmonyguy on 2008-09-06

2008-09-06T21:12:05Z

I found it very interesting that while Silverlight was used for the video player on nbcolympics.com, the main box on the home page (which cycled through photos and headlines for various top stories of the day) was done with Flash.

Comment from Aldo Bucchi on 2008-09-06

2008-09-06T21:44:08Z

Hehehe. Sweet Vendetta!

Expect a comment from John Dowdell in T minus 10... 9... 8... 7....

Comment from Jay Tannenbaum on 2008-09-06

2008-09-06T21:47:45Z

But Flash choked on the NFL Opener. Now what are they gonna do, go back to Silverlight. Sheesh.

Comment from totoro on 2008-09-06

2008-09-06T21:58:38Z

The article is a bit incorrect: Over 40 million visited the site total, and almost half did not have Silverlight installed, according to Microsoft. I think SAI got confused by the original Reuters:
http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINN2228041820080822?rpc=44&sp=true

Comment from James Williams on 2008-09-06

2008-09-06T22:06:35Z

The Silverlight install was huge beyond belief. Control Panel said it was taking up 4GB of space.

Comment from Jay Tannenbaum on 2008-09-06

2008-09-06T22:14:20Z

James: Which control panel?

Comment from adolfo foronda on 2008-09-06

2008-09-06T22:34:11Z

yeah and did u see how horrible flash went for them? streaming nfl quality was terrible.

Comment from Jordan Hofker on 2008-09-06

2008-09-06T22:38:07Z

Uh, Silverlight is not a 4GB install.

Comment from Karim on 2008-09-06

2008-09-06T22:53:02Z

thinking james must have gotten the "trojan.win32.longjohn.silverlight" download from driveby.installwarez.cn ;-)

Comment from Avatar on 2008-09-06

2008-09-06T23:18:59Z

I think in the end this worked right for Silverlight. it showed that Flash performance is huge drag down. many viewers got pissed up with the quality. i have seen lots of grumping and notes with "i guess silverlight was a good idea after all". this is good. it shows that silverlight is a better experience.

Comment from Avatar on 2008-09-06

2008-09-06T23:24:10Z

oh, and silverlight install is tiny. 30mb in xp and 50mb in vista. once installed. the download is 3mb for SL 1.0 and 5mb for SL 2.0 if am not mistaken.

Comment from David on 2008-09-06

2008-09-06T23:25:32Z

The article title is a little misleading. It should read "NBC Using Flash Live Streaming - does not work,or scale for Large Live Events." There is a reason that CNN.com and any other large Live Streaming cos uses Windows Media for live streaming. It scales a lot better. This does not include UStream.TV and Justin.TV which have smaller simultaneous users at any given moment.

Flash is fine for on-demand, but sucks on live events.

Comment from Carl on 2008-09-06

2008-09-07T03:42:59Z

I'm one of them and I continue to refuse the Silverlight install. No way I'll be part of Microsoft's attempt at monopolizing another web format.

Comment from Joel on 2008-09-06

2008-09-07T04:45:41Z

It was the NFL's decision to use Flash not NBC's. The NFL controls the Internet streaming "rights" not the Networks.

See... NFL Teams Up with Adobe to Deliver NBC Sunday Night Football Live on the Internet

http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200809/090408AdobeNFL.html

Comment from Joseph on 2008-09-07

2008-09-07T08:42:21Z

Silverlight is sloppy!!
Works inefficiently on the mac; and have personally been tracking silverlight and Adobe's Flash for quite some time.

Adobe certainly has the edge! The potential it has and will have with the Flash player 10 is beyond what the internet is used to. Expect Adobe to lead the RIA world if it does not do so already.

Comment from Avatar on 2008-09-07

2008-09-07T12:08:27Z

@Joel: great find. i hope corvida updates the article.

Comment from Anthony Farrior on 2008-09-07

2008-09-07T15:33:54Z

Yeah good riddance! Silverlight was a bother to install and then the video was a scaling nightmare...I don't mind flash choking a little, it will fix itself. It did do the job though: MSFT knows what they have to fix and NBC has leverage for the next silverlight video exclusive negotiations...

Comment from Jay Tannenbaum on 2008-09-07

2008-09-07T15:36:13Z

I used to work for macr and now a client is requiring me to use Silverlight. I see the pros and cons of both, but it is a little like groundhog day.

Comment from Marcelo on 2008-09-07

2008-09-08T00:06:18Z

Ouch! That's gotta hurt! Makes sense, though. Flash has a 98% install base and it is looking really good for entertainment now that Flash 10 is on the way.

ActionScript 3.0 has a much bigger developer base and from a programming standpoint is light years ahead of SilverLight. It may seem like an exaggeration to be sure, but until Microsoft comes up with a real advantage, SilverLight is nothing but an Adobe Flash pretender.

Comment from Ryan on 2008-09-08

2008-09-08T19:20:49Z

"ActionScript 3.0 has a much bigger developer base and from a programming standpoint is light years ahead of SilverLight. "

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

.NET developer base > Actionscript base.
.NET >>>>>>> Actionsuck.

Fail at life more.

Comment from Kirk Allen Evans on 2008-09-08

2008-09-09T00:05:37Z

NBC did not drop Silverlight. See http://silverlightbiz.blogspot.com/2008/09/sunday-night-football-on-nbc.html.

Ryan is correct that Silverlight's programming model is .NET, which enjoys a much, much larger developer base than Flash's proprietary ActionScript. For instance, developers can use the standardized C# language which has been implemented on multiple platforms: http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=42926)

The Common Language Infrastructure, the base architecture upon which .NET is built, is also standardized and implemented on multiple platforms:

http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=42927

If you would like to learn more about the superior capabilities of Silverlight, you should visit www.silverlight.net.

Comment from Erlik on 2008-09-09

2008-09-09T20:45:03Z

IMHO Silverlight is not yet ready to replace flash for such big event:
- There is no PPC mac version yet, only intel
- The linux version doesn't support video or audio playback yet.
- There is no support for browser beside IE and Firefox.
- No presence on consoles (the Wii has flash).

Microsoft should first have produced plugins for most of these platforms before trying to tackle an even such as the Olympics. As it is now it caused frustration and gave the technology a bad image.

Comment from Kirk Allen Evans on 2008-09-09

2008-09-09T21:15:17Z

Argh, the comment editor appended a period to the link I posted earlier. To see the real story why it was NFL's decision and not NBC's, see:

http://silverlightbiz.blogspot.com/2008/09/sunday-night-football-on-nbc.html

Comment from Kirk Allen Evans on 2008-09-09

2008-09-09T21:33:40Z

@Erlik - this is not true. Silverlight supports multiple browsers, including Firefox, Safari, and IE on both the Mac and Windows platforms. We are working to extend the support for Silverlight on Linux through a partnership with Novell.

The Olympics coverage was proof that Silverlight does scale to massive audiences. The Democratic National Convention was also broadcast via Silverlight with huge audience numbers.

Comment from Marcelo on 2008-09-12

2008-09-13T03:31:17Z

Ryan is NOT correct , Kirk.

1. Being a C# developer does not automatically make you a SilverLight developer.
2. Right now, there are a lot more Flash developers than SilverLight developers (check for example this article: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Adobe-s-Standardization-Plans-for-RIA-Development-Platform-Get-Crushed-91989.shtml
3. From personal experience is a lot easier to hire an experienced flash developer than a SilverLight developer.
4. Flash / Flex does have a lot more to offer than SilverLight technically, such as 3D capabilities (sort of) the flex framework, etc.

Whatever the case, Ryan's comment "fail at life more" is a disgraceful remark geared towards attacking character rather than the issue at hand. He epitomizes the stereotype of programmers being bigoted, arrogant and antisocial quite well actually.

Comment from Cole on 2008-09-24

2008-09-24T21:28:12Z

The performance here is not the technology, but the bandwidth and the encoding. The Olympics were using VC-1, which is Microsoft's WMV format. This is a major step down in quality from MPEG-4/h.264, which is what Hollywood and the other networks use for HD. Flash and h.264 is far superior to Silverlight/VC-1. This was one reason why Blu-Ray beat HD-DVD. Same technology battle, so that's not it.

The problem with the broadcast was encoding and capacity. If you broadcast in SD (standard definition) instead of HD (VC-1), SD will always look muddy in comparison. The Olympics had NBC serving up one-fifth the streams they expected they would have. No blips there when you have lots of bandwidth, and a bored server. But NBC was not happy about the lack of traffic, and Silverlight was a big problem with a new, scary download. The NFL got a LOT more traffic than they thought they would, and got overwhelmed.

I've seen plenty of silky smooth Flash h.264 with no studdering. Neither Flash nor Silverlight studder because of their technology. They show what they're given, on the computer hardware you have, on the bandwidth you have, and the bandwidth they have. The talk about technology performance here is completely wrong. Let's put the blame where it truly belongs. Swapping in Silverlight with SD and no bandwidth would produce the exact same thing.