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  <id>tag:,2008:/1/tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2008://1.12051-</id>
  <updated>2008-12-03T21:13:42Z</updated>
  <title>Comments for Swirrl: Newly Launched Semantic Web Wiki</title>
  
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  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2008://1.12051</id>
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    <link rel="service.edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-atom.cgi/weblog/blog_id=1/entry_id=12051" title="Swirrl: Newly Launched Semantic Web Wiki" />
    <published>2008-10-02T07:35:00Z</published>
    <updated>2008-10-02T07:43:46Z</updated>
    <title>Swirrl: Newly Launched Semantic Web Wiki</title>
    <summary>Swirrl is a wiki-like application that was built using Semantic Web technologies and launched as a beta last week. We heard about it in the comments to our post about the lack of commercial RDF applications on the Web. As with most Semantic Web apps, it&apos;s a little difficult to describe what Swirrl is. On...</summary>
    <author>
      <name>Richard MacManus</name>
      <uri>http://www.readwriteweb.com</uri>
    </author>
    
    <category term="Enterprise" />
    
    <category term="Products" />
    
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      <![CDATA[<p><img src="http://www.readwriteweb.com/images/swirrl_logo.jpg" /><a href="http://www.swirrl.com/">Swirrl</a> is a wiki-like application that was built using Semantic Web technologies and launched as a beta last week. We heard about it in the comments to our post about <a href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/rdf_semantic_web_apps.php">the lack of commercial RDF applications</a> on the Web.</p>
<p>As with most Semantic Web apps, it's a little difficult to describe what Swirrl is. On its homepage Swirrl is said to be &quot;like a wiki, but better.&quot; The further explanation is that it's a web application that &quot;allows your team to store, share, edit and analyze information.&quot; Basically its a data collaboration app. The main feature of Swirrl is a wiki interface, for editing web pages. But it also has spreadsheet  and database functionality too. </p>]]>
      <![CDATA[<p>This hybrid wiki/office functionality is reminiscent of <a href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/jotspot_hybrid_wiki_office.php">JotSpot</a> (which was <a href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/google_acquires_jotspot.php">acquired by Google</a> in Oct 2006 and eventually morphed into <a href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/google_sites_the_next_sharepoint_maybe_notwhy_google_apps_could_lose_the_enterprise_market.php">Google Sites</a>) and <a href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/dabble_do_launches_social_to_do_lists.php">Dabble DB</a> (a similarly <a href="http://blogs.zdnet.com/web2explorer/?p=222">hard to describe</a> amalgam of wiki/spreadsheet/database).</p>
<p>Swirrl is focused on business use, rather than consumer use. The business model for Swirrl is premium accounts, from $24 to $198 per month. There is however a free version, which we played with to find out what Swirrl does.</p>
<p>Company rep Bill Roberts <a href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/rdf_semantic_web_apps.php#comment-112459">explained the purpose of Swirrl</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
  <p>&quot;We're aiming to lower the bar for efficient sharing and re-use of information in an organisation, to try to find the middle ground between individuals with their own copies of spreadsheets (easy, but poor for collaboration) and complex database systems (good collaboration, but big investment needed and can be inflexible in the face of change).&quot;</p>
</blockquote>
  
  <p>Roberts went on to outline how Swirrl is using RDF to achieve this type of &quot;middle ground&quot; business collaboration:</p>
  <blockquote>  <p>&quot;...we were looking for a lightweight flexible way to put some sort of a data model behind a collection of information, so it can be exchanged and combined in meaningful ways. After some early prototypes using a variety of approaches, we settled on RDF.&quot;</p>
</blockquote>
<p>According to Roberts, using RDF &quot;behind the scenes&quot; was the best way for Swirrl to enable data collaboration inside and outside an organization. &quot;Our main aim is to improve collaboration amongst a group of colleagues&quot;, said Roberts, &quot;but of course exchanging information with the 'outside world' is important, and therefore it makes sense to use a standard way of representing data and it's structure.&quot;</p>
<h2>Initial Tests</h2>
<p>In our tests, it was difficult to use Swirrl. The idea is that users will be <a href="http://blog.swirrl.com/articles/2008/06/17/context-is-everything-why-the-semantic-web-is-important">entering semantic mark-up</a>, without necessarily knowing they're doing it. The presence of RDF can be glimpsed in the user interface, with references to 'Statements',   'Things',   'Properties',   'Types'.  However the problem for ordinary users of this app is that those aren't necessarily intuitive concepts, when using a Web UI with text fields for input. We also tried uploading a couple of spreadsheets, but got errors such as &quot;The file was improperly formatted&quot; that had no further explanation. This may be because the app is so new that there are a few bugs around.</p>
<p>To be fair, using Swirrl becomes clearer when you view the help files. So we can imagine that with a bit of training, business users would get used to the system. When they do, users may start to appreciate the concept of entering semantic meaning into a spreadsheet-like application. Provided they can get past what looks to be a relatively steep learning curve. For businesses, the potential value is in linking this data with external data sets in the future.</p>

<p><img src="http://www.readwriteweb.com/images/swirrl2.jpg" /></p>
<p>We think it's too early to judge how good Swirrl is, but it's definitely worth highlighting to our readers as an example of a commercial RDF Semantic Web app. They do exist! Let us know in the comments what you think of Swirrl, and whether you can see it being used in a business setting.</p>]]>
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  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2008://1.12051-comment:112566</id>
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    <title>Comment from Bill Roberts on 2008-10-02</title>
    <author>
        <name>Bill Roberts</name>
        <uri>http://www.swirrl.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.swirrl.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>Hi Richard</p>

<p>Thanks for trying out Swirrl and for writing about us.  Sorry you encountered a few glitches - the service is very new and there are a few ease-of-use issues (and no doubt a few bugs!) that we are still working on. </p>

<p>Your comment about it being difficult to use is an important point for us to hear: we're still thinking hard about how to get new users over that 'so what do I do now?' stage.</p>

<p>We'd be glad to hear any feedback or suggestions from RWW readers.</p>

<p><br />
Bill</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-10-02T08:49:18Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2008://1.12051-comment:112572</id>
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    <title>Comment from Bernard Lunn on 2008-10-02</title>
    <author>
        <name>Bernard Lunn</name>
        <uri>http://bernardlunn.wordpress.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://bernardlunn.wordpress.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>I think it is addressing a real need. But there are too many hurdles to adoption. People use spreadsheets to build lists that may get more sophisticated over time. That is a naturally collaborative process. Microsoft dropped the collaboration ball with Excel, letting in Google and Zoho. </p>

<p>Everybody knows how to use a spreadsheet. You can start really simple and build real sophistication over time.</p>

<p>Spreadsheets can update automatically based on feeds.</p>

<p>Spreadsheets build databases or feed off databases but you don't need to understand SQL or other relational concepts. Nor do you need to understand RDF (phew!).</p>

<p>It's The Spreadsheet, Stupid.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-10-02T09:53:47Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2008://1.12051-comment:112590</id>
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    <title>Comment from Jesse Wojdylo on 2008-10-02</title>
    <author>
        <name>Jesse Wojdylo</name>
        <uri>http://freddiefallout.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://freddiefallout.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>It looks as if there is great potential, I will have to play around with it some more, but overall, it looks like a great site that will be very useful!!</p>

<p><a href="http://jwojdylo.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">http://jwojdylo.wordpress.com</a></p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-10-02T13:10:28Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2008://1.12051-comment:112668</id>
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    <title>Comment from Neil Phillips on 2008-10-02</title>
    <author>
        <name>Neil Phillips</name>
        <uri>http://neilphillips.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://neilphillips.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>Thanks for squirreling this one out - <a href="http://www.freebase.com" rel="nofollow">freebase.com</a> is similar wiki, deployed as semantic wikipedia. Nice.<br />
</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-10-02T23:08:49Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2008://1.12051-comment:112853</id>
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    <title>Comment from Michael Erdmann on 2008-10-04</title>
    <author>
        <name>Michael Erdmann</name>
        <uri></uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[<p>If you are interested in putting semantics into Wikis and collaborative environments you want to check out Semantic MediaWiki [1] which extends the MediaWiki platform. SMW allows adding semantic markup to Wiki pages be essentially labeling links. </p>

<p>On top of SMW we have developed SMW+ (aka Halo Extension [2]) which makes creating ontologies, adding annotations, and esp. maintaining the knowledge in the Wiki much easier and user friendlier. </p>

<p>SMW and SMW+ are completely open source [3,4]. For SMW+ ontoprise offers professional services for companies [2].</p>

<p>[1] <a href="http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Semantic_MediaWiki" rel="nofollow">http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Semantic_MediaWiki</a><br />
[2] <a href="http://wiki.ontoprise.com/ontoprisewiki/index.php/Main_Page" rel="nofollow">http://wiki.ontoprise.com/ontoprisewiki/index.php/Main_Page</a><br />
[3] <a href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/semediawiki/" rel="nofollow">http://sourceforge.net/projects/semediawiki/</a><br />
[4] <a href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/halo-extension/" rel="nofollow">http://sourceforge.net/projects/halo-extension/</a></p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-10-04T16:34:50Z</published>
  </entry>

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