Editor: This is a guest post by Andria Krewson, a freelance journalist who has written for Demand Media. Given our recent focus on Demand Media and so-called content farms, we thought it would be interesting to get the perspective of a Demand Media writer.
I made $37.50 at Demand Studios in November. That money went directly into my Paypal account, on time, with no billing hassles. But it probably took me about six hours of filling out a profile, studying a style guide and learning how to navigate the system. So my hourly pay was about $6, for a writer new to the system.
]]> Andria Krewson is a freelance journalist and consultant in Charlotte, N.C. She has worked at newspapers for 27 years, focusing on design and editing of community publications. She blogs for her neighborhood at Under Oak and covers changing culture at Crossroads Charlotte. Reach her on Twitter as @underoak.I had heard about Demand Studios from former co-workers before Wired wrote about Demand Media (Demand Studio's parent company) in October, and media pundits like Jay Rosen followed up with comments on Twitter and an interview with the company's CEO at ReadWriteWeb. [Ed: ReadWriteWeb's first analysis of Demand Media was in August.] Demand Media has been criticized for producing low-quality content designed for search engine optimization. It's not journalism, critics say, and it's clogging up Google searches, making good stuff hard to find.
But I suspect much of that criticism has come from people who haven't gone inside the Demand Studios part of Demand Media to see how it really works, or they haven't thought enough about what kind of content it provides, or they haven't thought enough about how it feels to swallow your pride and make a little money with your strongest knowledge and skills, no matter the global hourly rate.
There are differences between the user-generated content at sites Demand Media feeds, and the content generated by Demand Studios.
So let's get to it.
People sign up as writers, editors or filmmakers. I signed up as a writer. Contributors study the style guide, which gives specifics on allowed citations, and why citations are needed, and how to write for search-engine optimization without sounding too clunky. New writers can also consult forums and connect with other contributors with social-networking tools. Writers can then use keywords, pay rates and general content areas to search through available assignments. Generally, enough assignments exist that writers can find subjects of personal interest.
Fact sheets get $7.50 an assignment. I fulfilled one of those before I realized that rate of pay wasn't worth the effort. The next two assignments, for $15 each, both dealt with the same topic, with slightly different angles, and I chose them because I knew the subject well. Still, I had to do some research, to back up my statements and provide links to .edu or .gov sites. No Wikipedia allowed.
Once accepting assignments, I had a week to submit them to editors. While I could have written each piece without any research, citations and outbound links are required, as well as a summary (a nut graf, essentially, in newspaper terms). Frankly, the discipline of filling out boxes with words could help some professional writers improve the focus of their pieces. Certainly new writers can learn from the system. And the SEO tips in the style guide are worth study.
One piece I wrote was bounced back for further editing. The editor's comments were gentle but clear. I made fixes, resubmitted, and got paid, through Paypal, no invoices necessary.
The stories are usually how-to pieces, often broken into steps. They're evergreen, designed to be as relevant in a year or two as they are now. They're the kinds of questions I would usually get answered through a phone call to my contractor father, or my brother the car genius, or my mother the seamstress/cook/homemaker/gardener/early computer geek.
You can tell by the assignment headlines that they're generated from search engine queries, and sometimes those search terms provide some amusement. People are actually turning to Google to ask these questions? What happened to asking basic questions from friends and family?
But indeed, we're in a different world, and the criticism of Demand Media by some pundits strikes me as a bit elitist, as if the Internet weren't for everyone. A personal example:
(Daughter, 19, volunteers to help me with my eye shadow for a special event.)
Me: Where'd you learn this technique?
Her: Youtube.
(And indeed, eHow videos, supplied by Demand Media, show how to apply eye shadow.)
Next page: Swallowing my prideMy friends who first told me about Demand Studios are wordsmiths, copy editors of the highest skill levels, who worked for Demand Studios for $3.50 a story.
Yes, $3.50 a story. But one friend, once he had the hang of the system, managed to work fast enough to raise his rate to about $20 an hour, from his couch, on his schedule, while waiting to get a full-time job elsewhere.
Another friend also edited for Demand Studios, as a supplement to a part-time job before eventually getting full-time work, after about a year of underemployment.
Demand Media doesn't need help with public relations from me. They're compiling comments in an internal forum from their writers about why they love Demand Studios. And plenty of people have commented. They appear to be overwhelmingly women, often with children, often English majors or journalism students, looking for a way to do what they love and make a little money at it.
Compare those demographics to Wikipedia: more than 80% male, more than 65% single, more than 85% without children, around 70% under the age of 30.
Admittedly, working for Demand Studios isn't a point of pride for most professional journalists. But the interface and the editing allow people with other expertise to share knowledge. I recommended the site to my father the contractor. It could be a good way for a retiree with a lifetime of knowledge to document life lessons for others.
People with disabilities, or people who have to fit their work around children's schedules, or people between jobs have a place to earn some money, from their living rooms. It's not the only "writer mill" out there, but it has been under fire lately, and a look inside might add a little light.
Jay Rosen's interview with the CEO of Demand Media, Richard Rosenblatt, done via IM, included this quote from Rosenblatt:
"What's more like a sweatshop: someone's living room working their own hours or a typical newsroom?"
Certainly some people in newsrooms are feeling pressure these days, but perhaps that quote isn't quite fair. For a newsroom copy editor to earn $28 an hour (not factoring in benefits), at the Demand Studios rate of $3.50 a story, they would have to "edit" 64 stories in an eight-hour shift. I don't know of newsrooms that are quite at that point yet, but then again, we're in a global economy, with global pay rates.
Some wordsmiths will choose to work from their couches. Take a good, broad look at what they produce before criticizing.
Check out ReadWriteWeb's entire coverage of Demand Media and content farms:
While it is nice that you are trying to help out, I would really suggest that you spend about three or four hours looking for sites that specifically deal in that area, because if you were willing to make a few phone calls and send a few emails, you could probably find a business that would pay him a lot more for the content.
If you really have expertise in something, then you could get a LOT more than $25 an hour.
Another thing they could do is just set up your OWN blog with your articles on it. Hire any 13 year old kid to set it up for you for like $25 and start writing. Cram it full of adsense ads and spend less time cranking out articles and more time marketing it and you will make a lot more money for yourself.
So I don't hate demand media / ehow, just it is sad to see so many people with so much writing talent who could be putting A LOT MORE MONEY in their pocket if they just took the time to leverage their expertise.
]]>'Simulacra and Simulation'. This book inspired The Matrix.
]]>Some people do - and I say if it makes you happy, go for it!
]]>I also found there isn't much readily available information that really helps new writers navigate the site and get rolling. I spent several hours poking around the site, printing out guides and reading those. And still I have several questions about how DS works.
I finally asked one question through their system. It took more than 8 hours to get a response and the person answering gave a generic answer to a specific question. Based on this answer, I went ahead and wrote up the title (it was a shopping guide) and filled out the form required to submit the work.Then I couldn't submit it. I had suspected there was a problem with this article which is why I contacted the DS help desk in the first place. After putting in almost 2 hours of work and not being able to submit it and knowing no one there cares that's when I said, "enough."
After going through the process I honestly don't get how a writer can make more than $10 an hour, if you can get used to jumping through all the DM hoops -- and there are many,
I should have listened to my gut when I realized the BS I was getting from reviewers when I had problems loading a photo on the bio page. The size of the photo is much, much smaller than they think it is.
At this point, I am wary of these glowing claims from DS writers. And I'm moving on.There's something inherently dehumanizing about the way Demand Studios works, and I want no part of it.
]]>I meant, one can make $100-200 a week, not month.
Sometimes, SOMETIMES, it is more than that, though.
The main reason being is that there simply are not enough articles to go around.
Demand Studios is good for, say, college students looking for extra money, folks who like to write as a hobby, or they can't work due to a handicap....but, if you want to make the kind of money that should be made as a writer, it is more like $1,000 a week, and more.
]]>The $4,000 a month comment was a hoot!
For those of you just breaking into this writing gig or you want to learn more about all of this, the reality is, you get paid very, VERY little. Figure $100-200 a month (around $8 an hour).
In most cases it takes at least an hour to write out and edit an article.
Don't fall for the "I can write 3-4 articles an hour and make $60 hour" BS.
Sorry, but this rarely happens.
So if it takes you at least an hour, that is normal.
On top of that, DS doesn't take all of your articles. Figure on around a few a week. Sometimes it's more.
Now, of course, many are content with making that much, for the reasons given above, while others feel that they want to make more than the average $8 an hour.
It's different strokes for different folks.
From an experienced writer who isn't in a dream world.
I think the question will be, what quality level will the mass production be able to achieve. There will be a limit, and sites that take a more authoritative view and give trust a boost within their content (like http://www.thefreeresource.com does) and pay their writers more for better content will win in the long run. I guess it's the different between a mass produced car and a hand crafted car. Which will last longer and have less issues? I put my money on the hand crafted vehicle. I think the same is true with the large sites that rely on mass but have little quality behind each article. We recently saw this with QA sites and will soon see it with content farms that don't live up to Google's and the users standards."
]]>I don't think this article is fair to the company. The author should write more articles for a few months before voicing her opinion. Articles "lack personality" because they are designed to be direct, helpful and informative. Being direct also helps reduce "fluff" and get points across. If you read about SEO and internet user habits then you will see that people skim content very quickly. People want answers and solutions to problems and Demand Studios fulfills that in 400 to 500 words. We are also required to offer references to back up articles and resources to further expand the topic. The company has also cleaned up user generated content on sites like eHow to improve internet user experiences.
]]>I write for Demand, and sure, I would love to make more per article, but the more I became familiar with the process the more efficient I became. I now make an average of $15 an hour writing from home. Will I do it forever? Heck no, but it's a great stop-gap.
Usually the editors are encouraging, and once you get the hang of the requirnments most articles go through without bouncing back. Sure, their required writing style is more than a bit stiff, but hey, they are the boss.
Let's get one thing clear here, and then I'll get off my soap box: Demand doesn't care if their articles help anyone. I'm sure they see it as a nice bonus when it does. the articles that we write are there to generate ad revenue, hence the boring, key word optimized writing style.
As for them being a 'sweat shop', that is, by definition, B.S. A proficient, full time Demand Media Writer (note that I didn't say 'Journalist') can make well over minimum wage. No way on their web site do they claim to pay wages that compete with the journalism industry.
]]>Bogus argument on the keyword stuff. Find something else to nitpick.
]]>Most of the follow up articles were written to deal with the sometimes uninformed criticism of other writers. Like the author's friend in this post, I've gotten quick enough at writing articles on topics I'm already familiar with to do 3 or 4 in an hour. I stick to the $15 ones, so that works out to $45 to $60 per hour, which is a much higher rate than a lot of freelancers make elsewhere writing online. And, unlike those places, there are no minimum requirements, deadlines, or communications to manage.
In the end, I find it a great way to fill-in the freelancing pipeline.
As far as quality and clogging of the Internet and search results with basic impersonal articles, blame Google, not Demand Studios. It is becoming more apparent that their ranking algorithm is slipping. Maybe some of what was in Caffeine will make "content mills" less profitable. Until then, you can't blame someone for doing what works.
Brian Llama with ArcticLlama.com
]]>I've only been with them for a couple of months but am absolutely thrilled with them so far. Everything I write gets an approval within 24 hours and I get paid very quickly thereafter. I should be up to at least $3,000 a month on Demand very soon and that's only one of the sites I write for.
Once you get to know what Demand wants, the articles are easy to write, fun to research and you get very few re-write requests. I don't know of another online site that is paying a fair few writers upwards of $4,000 a month to write fun stuff (and yes, there are numerous DS writers making that on Demand and more!)
Making $37.50 on Demand hardly qualifies you to write an article about it. Sorry. I make that in a hour on Demand.
]]>"Create your own ecosystem."
"I need to be an SEO?"
"Revenue sharing."
All interesting thoughts, y'all. What's great for the "content providers" is the number of companies seeking quality content. SEO, smart business and smart systems matter. But I'm optimistic the competition will lead to a search for quality and a need to pay content providers well. It might take awhile, and some content providers will need to learn new skills, or opt for niches that might or might not pay. But it's nice to know new markets exist.
]]>The option we prefer on our Big City Informer News Network is to share the Advertising revenue with the authors. That way good authors generate a much higher revenue while publishing their own local news. You don't "sell" your work just once, you rather keep on earning from it.
There is so much talent out there and not everybody can or want to work in a journalism position. If you meet friends you also talk about all kinds of topics with them, and not all off them are "certified" experts.
Thanks again for the article Andria
Sorry, but yes you do. It's just part of the skill of being a writer these days. The best online writers can combine SEO-friendly writing with something that's readable, entertaining and informative for real human beings.
It's actually much more fun and creative than you think - and it's nothing to do with keyword stuffing.
]]>If Google doesn't want it search, they won't index it. Apparently they do. Demand's goal is to 'produce the world's content'. That's intriguing. How might Google become obsolete or challenged? If there's a competing source of content of similar size and scope perhaps?
Maybe Demand is doing what Bing wants to do with News Corp etc.., but on a bit by bit basis.
]]>But while Demand Studios or others are setting a floor for rates and appearing high in Google searches, I suspect the equivalent of the Ritz Carlton is out there somewhere, finding a way to reach readers and viewers with unique content and/or real reporting.
Somehow, it feels as if targeted quality will trend in 2010. In the mean time, if I get labeled a "hack," I know I can still eat, and I'll be in good company with some writers of the past.
-Jack
]]>am absolute TRAGEDY for web content and for web users.
In recent times I noticed a huge degradation in the quality of results returned by search engines. I suspect Demand Media's actions have a lot to do with that tragedy.
]]>My work there was fine, passed editing with the occasional kickback for further format tweaks, but no major blips. But when I compared my writing there to writing about what I really know how to do well, it was clear my work was no substitute for that of a pro. If you've ever excelled at something, you understand that a novice studying your craft can't do well without coaching from someone who knows how it's really done (not necessarily someone who just can read about how it's done). That's not what I delivered.
When I did Demand studios work, my pay was around $10-15 an hour, and with no taxes taken out, that means my actual earnings once I paid taxes on that were less. Their topics are challenging enough, I doubt many people do much better and produce good work (not that some don't succeed in producing more per hour!).
But my editors didn't necessarily know more than me about a given topic; they could probably sniff out pure B.S., but my sense was they mostly cared about hewing to style, not the experience borne of really knowing a topic. What this woman says about their payment mechanisms is entirely true, however. I never had any experience where Demand did not live up to their financial obligations. They paid, on time, every time. In the writing world, that experience is less common than it should be. I'm just not sure that experience produces really high value content.
]]>I'm glad to see people with more experience with Demand Studios speak up in comments.
And I agree with Richard and hj: A big question is whether Demand Media is good for search. For that question, I think DM is just a symptom of the impact of SEO and the search for Google juice. Set up a system (Google search), and sooner or later someone will figure out how to game the system to their advantage. Then someone else will set up a new system, perhaps with human elements built in, and we'll all try to figure out how to game that system. And so it goes.
]]>It is not for everyone. Nothing created satisfies everyone. Those who know exactly what they are searching for will find the appropriate content to meet their needs. If you are not sure then you will have some weeding out to do. If you want imagery and descriptive adjectives then read a magazine article or someone's blog. If you want straight forward information look towards the content of Demand Studios writers.
Different strokes for different folks...
]]>I'd rather see someone who has written way more as well. I've done almost 200 articles at this point and feel that someone who's done this many or more even can speak more to the system than someone who's done less than a handful.
]]>CB
I think the article presented a balanced viewpoint, but why choose a writer who has only done three articles? Why not a piece from someone who has done hundreds? And let's find out why they stay at it.
]]>"It's my editor's job to SEO the article and clean it up."
No, nowadays it's your job too. What's more, a skilled journalist nowadays should also be able to shoot a video then edit it, or record an audio piece, edit it and put a podcast together.
Stop defending your right to be elitist. Start being versatile.
]]>What a beautiful system!
However what comes out of this system seems to be "evergreen" articles without substance. The key difference is what comes out of Demand Media seems to be in my opinion sterile content lacking passion. If my mum wrote an article on the steps to stuff a turkey it would read like something Julia Child wrote - passion - excitement - knowledge!
To be honest I hope that we lose our need for Google (search engines) and get our knowledge from articles and web sites via referrals from people we respect. This is how I found RWW and have not left the site!
]]>Is it it good for web content in general and for the efficacy of search engines in particular? Does it help me find good content when I need to or does it dilute good content making it hard to find?
]]>It killed my creativity. I was looking over my shoulder every time I wrote a sentence. I never got to the point of actually submitting an article! I left and ended up writing for a blog with no restrictions or writing template. It's my editor's job to SEO the article and clean it up. I have total control on the originality of the content I produce.
-Jack
]]>