Google, Facebook, MySpace and More Meet to Talk Activity Streams
Last night at the offices of blogging software company Six Apart, engineers and social media specialists from a number of companies large and small met to discuss proposed standards for the future of "activity streams" - the system of displaying recent activities of your friends online. Think Facebook Newsfeed, the basic format of FriendFeed, or the kinds of update chronicles we're seeing now on almost every social network around the web.
Who was in the room? People from Google, MySpace, Facebook, Yahoo!, Nokia, Comcast and a variety of forward looking small startup companies. Thanks to the magic of mobile streaming video, you can be a virtual fly on the wall of this important meeting. Nokia's Ian Kennedy captured the conversation on his phone using Kyte.com and posted it online.
What are activity streams all about? People are taking actions and publishing content on a wide variety of websites these days; pulling all that data together, with a variety of different permission levels for viewing and different types of data, is much easier said than done. Just like a standard size of railroad track helped the trains get across the US like they had never done before (thus opening a new era of commerce and communication) so to do all these social media signals need some common format standards to travel from one website to another. Thought leader Chris Messina explains it all quite succinctly in this video from a related meeting over the holidays.
For a detailed summary of last night's meeting on this topic and some good background links, see Comcast's John McCrea's liveblogging of the session.
The hot debates were how to handle media files in activity feed streams and some tension between the big, more proprietary social networks like Facebook and the small, radically open projects like DiSo, the Distributed Social Networking Project.
Any disagreement aside, though, we find it pretty remarkable that all these heavy hitters are sitting at the same table, along with a variety of small startups, to talk about the future of online community and conversation in the form of activity streams. Activity streams are already a big deal, but if these conversations can be fruitful, the results will be as big as the point in history when customers of different email providers became able to email each other or different telephone company customers became able to call each others' phones.
Unlike those historic transformations, though, much of the planning for this one is being done out in the open. Not just through open public meetings like last night's, but thanks to live mobile video, live blogging with comments and microblogging technologies, this conversation can include the participation of anyone in the world.
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It is amazing how much information now flows across websites. I can't imagine it getting even more streamlined.
Nick, I agree. Imagine semantic analysis, recommendation tech and who knows what else added to that mix and we're just at the beginning of a very exciting era.
Very interesting! Btw, where is twitter in all of this?! Does the "more" include them?!
Posted by: Shivanand Velmurugan
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January 9, 2009 11:35 AM
@shivanand I was wondering where twitter and friendfeed were. i know twitter sometimes participates but i don't know if they had anyone at this mtg.
Posted by: Marshall Kirkpatrick
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January 9, 2009 11:35 AM
ok im going to rant here but why in the blue heck is everything done in SV? There are plenty of people and companies here in NYC and around the world who should be involved in these meetings but instead we get the same ole same ole. I don't want to be a fly on the wall, I want to be in the room.
It's a damn shame. Maybe Messina could start a worldwide tour to discuss this topic and loads of others. Marshall you note that the conversation can take place worldwide and that's great but c'mon, it's not the same.
Allen - I think you are right.
NICE POST
Unquestionably, the activity streams are paramount to the genesis of social networks.
There is another application of activity streams that is outside of the realm of open social networks. I am talking about communication management systems such as Relenta, which functions essentially as a closed social network.
And, for the record, we at Relenta implemented activity streams two weeks ahead of Facebook's MiniFeed introduction :) (Toot, toot!)
Marshall, thanks very much indeed for the awesome report.
@Shivanand - Last night was to let anyone cornered participate in the spec's development. Twitter wasn't physically there, but @al3x participates in the DiSo Acticity Stream Google Group.
@Marshall:
"...these conversations can be fruitful, the results will be as big as the point in history when customers of different email providers became able to email each other or different telephone company customers became able to call each others' phones."
A+++!!!
> Just like a standard size of railroad track
> helped the trains get across the US like they
> had never done before
As an aside, the reverse also holds true. The size of railroad tracks is still different between former Soviet Union and Western Europe... Go figure :)
Allen,
As someone who originally worked in the industry outside of the Bay Area, I can definitely sympathize with your perspective.
The problem is that - as this photo very much indicates - everyone doing something significant in this area IS in San Francisco (or, such as MySpace, v close by - and they come up to SF all the time now).
It's a bold statement to say, but sadly I think the evidence backs it up.
It's just how the cookie crumbles, and for some of us (eg me) you have to bite the bullet and either lump it or move over to be centrally part of it.
The one point I would raise specifically about this meeting is that I'm not sure how "public" this meeting was (to quote the representation of it in this RRW piece).
It certainly wasn't closed door - it turns out there was a facebook event for it - but it's worth noting that only 30 people were directly invited and it looks like all of them directly represent a vendor.
I'm not saying there is a conspiracy going on, but at the same time it's fair to say wasn't submitted to the usual places (Upcoming, DiSo mailing list) or very widely distributed by a wider invite list -- thus not v 'public'.
Posted by: benmetcalfe.com
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January 9, 2009 3:28 PM
Thanks for bringing up public/private details, Ben. I imagine that's a sticky subject, similar to Messina's recent decision to require approval for entry into the Activity Feeds email discussion list. In this case though, I'm glad it was live blogged and streamed. I'm sure quality participation from others, outside the physical venue if they weren't there, is welcome. Does raise questions though.
Thanks for the reply comment Marshall
Yes, pleased it was live blogged/streamed. But let's make sure we don't start setting that as the bar for "public". It's easy for that to simply become a stage show -- I can watch government hearings from Congress all the way to the UN council meetings on CPAN/News channels, it doesn't mean they are "public" meetings in the sense that I can participate.
Transparent != public
Posted by: benmetcalfe.com
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January 9, 2009 3:48 PM
Yeah I agree with Ben - the term "open" is really starting to get abused. But nevertheless, props to the guys for recording it.
Allen: I totally understand, and feel this constantly as I am involved with the DataPortability Project which intersects with a lot of this work and live in Sydney Australia. The best thing you can do, like I have done, is join the mailing lists and develop one on one relationships with guys like Messina (and Metcalfe).
Totally we should do a DiSO meetup in NYC.
Unfortunately all the companies attending yesterday's meeting - are West Coast based. But you know what's required to have a meetup = people.
So instead of griping about it, do something about it.
:-)
Meanwhile allot was accomplished and posted onto the DiSO wiki.
Well done, I do believe that we are on the forefront of an interesting "life-streaming" phenomenon that will continue to grow and mature in the coming years.
However, it's hard not to compare this "theoretical" 'activity hub' to friendfeed. There are a lot of similarities to the current friendfeed setup and this proposed system doesn't seem to bring much difference to friendfeed's existing UI.
I think the focus should lie more in the content and less on the particular individual who provides it. We will see a push for more content-specific aggregation, further distancing ourselves from "personal streaming".
The great thing about Data Portability is that it is a global phenomenon that affects everyone everywhere. The meeting in SV, and subsequent coverage, is a great thing for the cause -- even more so when you incorporate all the buzz, community interest, and activism that such events create. What is particularly significant here is the coming together of major players to solve a common issue. They can enhance their results by sharing their ideas and inviting comment from the many who share common interests and goals.
These types of discussions occur every single day. The DataPortability Project (www.dataportability.org) maintains public mailing lists for active discussion and holds weekly meetings with participants from around the world, including Australia, Germany, Italy, the UK, dozens of other countries, multiple locations throughout the US – and, yes, Silicon Valley. Public invited.
At a time when people are making new years’ resolutions, Data Portability adoption seems to be on many people’s lists. I would submit now is the time for activism. Get up. Get out. Get involved – and make a difference for your benefit and the benefit of all.
-- Steve Repetti, Fort Lauderdale FL
DataPortability Board Member
(note: fellow board member @elias, post number 14 above, from Australia)
Just a heads up. I tried to watch the video but there is a really loud beeping sound throughout (cell phone?). Really interesting though!
Just to set the record straight... I've been blogging about the Activity Streams effort since last spring -- and it seems like only now people are starting to show real interest -- seriously a great thing -- but completely unanticipated!
The last meetup on activities was put on Upcoming (as well as this one) and we had like 8 people show up. I've held previous events at Citizen Space that were somewhat more restricted, but it's nothing that I wouldn't have told anyone about who'd have asked.
Let me just say that my process for these kinds of initiatives comes from experience. As I did with OAuth, I tend to keep the initial group small and tight and the mailing list closed -- inviting folks who are actual implementors of some technology that we'd like to see standardized (or made more conventional). This helps us keep focused, enabling us to agree on the problem that we're really trying to solve before we open to wider discussion.
This is not a proprietary process -- anyone can do the same thing and I enco
Posted by: factoryjoe.com
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January 9, 2009 10:20 PM
so Chris, what are you hiding?? lol, I kid, I kid. sounds like a tough spot to be in, organizing. sounds like your perspective is a reasonable one, though.
Posted by: Marshall Kirkpatrick
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January 9, 2009 10:21 PM
well nice to see that there is a large nbr of data being shared on these social sites, and the idea to put a standard is a very good one ...
cheers!
jean
http://www.jean.ghalo.com
Isn't chi.mp trying to do this? I don't see any primates in that picture.
So it is very important how you manage your information by using all those tools.
If not you will become overwhelm and drawning.
You just need to Smart Computing Ordinary Guy nowadays.
@syedakram
Thanks for posting the video. Great post.
Posted by: ozten.myopenid.com
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January 13, 2009 5:39 PM
I agree that most of the current thinking that goes on does emanate from SF but that is probably due to the nature of having such a strong concentration of similar minds, skills and money that isnt really paralleled elsewhere in world.
In time that will change and I believe Asia is where this kind of stuff will really take off in a big way.
For the timebeing I think it's cool for major players to determine what the standards should be .. once FB, MySpace adopt something then that will resonate down the long tail of businesses that use these activity streams from the big gorillas in the SNS space. So great work Chris, keep it coming!
@Patrick You mean you know what chi.mp actually does? I have an account there but it seems like a defunct Friendfeed.