Online Business Networking: 2 Horse Globalization Race
Increasingly people accept that Facebook serves a different function than LinkedIn. In simple terms: deals on LinkedIn, dates on Facebook. This simple reality was obscured for a while, because the Silicon Valley crowd use Facebook (as it is the new, new thing) and so they extrapolated incorrectly that the rest of the world will work that way too. It looked like a contest between the Facebook hipsters and LinkedIn suits. But the real race for business networking has two horses. LinkedIn is clearly one. The other is not Facebook, but Xing.
Both LinkedIn and Xing are business focussed. So this is not a hipsters vs suits contest. This is a Europe vs America contest, with Asia as the disputed territory.
Xing is interesting because it is a public company. They went public in December 2006 in Germany, raising $55m (at current exchange rates). So their financial data is out in the open for all to see, on their site. As the first Web 2.0 company to go public, this makes Xing very interesting to look at.
Xing’s public currency matters, as it will cost a lot of money to win in Asia - where the growth is and where neither LinkedIn nor Xing are strong today. Markets such as China, Japan and Korea are big but also notoriously tough to crack, requiring persistence and deep pockets as well as smarts.
I spoke to Lars Hinrichs, CEO of Xing, last week and I asked him if the company planned a US listing; his answer was a clear no. He is confident that Xing can raise all the capital they need in Europe - and Sarbanes Oxley regulation was a disincentive. Those two Senators have sure done a lot of good for European and Asian companies, by weakening the US IPO market and therefore the capital raising capability of US companies.
The fact that Xing is a “public market comparable” puts some boundaries around LinkedIn’s valuation. If LinkedIn did an IPO, Xing’s comparables would be pored over by Wall Street analysts. If a big public or private company were to acquire LinkedIn, these same comparables would be used.
I do not have access to LinkedIn financials, so I cannot make a serious estimate of LinkedIn’s value. What we do have are some published numbers on users. On that basis, LinkedIn looks like 4x bigger at 20m vs Xing at 5m. Xing’s market cap today is round $300m, so that would make LinkedIn quite happy at 4 x $300m = $1,200m.
But dig a bit deeper, as investors certainly would, and the numbers are not so clearly in LinkedIn’s favor. How well are both sites monetizing their users? This is where Xing’s early capital constrained history matters. The company was profitable within a few months of starting, a very old-fashioned idea.
Xing provided ReadWriteWeb with some data from Comscore:
Click here for larger image
LinkedIn looks ahead on Total Unique Visitors by a factor of 2.6x. That is a big gap but not unbridgeable and smaller than the 4x headline based on LinkedIn 20m vs Xing 5m users.
But what really jumps out from this data is the much higher engagement of Xing users on all the key measures. On Average Minutes per Visitor Xing at 43.4 is 5.5x LinkedIn’s 7.8.
Engagement matters as it translates to revenue, as long as the company is reasonably smart about monetization. Xing, with their bootstrapped early days, has been unfashionably focussed on revenue. Xing recently released their financials for year ending December 2007. There is a lot of interesting data there for anybody interested in the business of business networking. At around $30m, Xing revenues are still small but on a high growth path - 2x 2006 revenues. Plus their 35% EBITDA margin shows maturity. This is already a cash cow.
The combination of cash cow, about $60m in the bank and a public equity currency gives Xing a sizable war chest. They will need that to win in Asia, as discussed above.
They will also need it to win in America (and other English speaking territories such as UK, Australia and India) and that is where Xing needs to be smart. LinkedIn clearly dominate these markets and English is the global language of business (after my feeble attempts to resurrect my childhood German, Lars Hinrichs was happy to speak in English!). I registered for Xing out of curiosity, it all looks quite good but there is no way I will upload my email addresses and ask all my contacts (80% of whom I already connect to on LinkedIn) to also connect to me on Xing. My contacts would rightly accuse me of spamming them.
Note: the same is almost certainly true when LinkedIn tries getting Xing users in Europe to switch. These businesses are valuable because there are high switching costs.
This is where Xing’s relationship with ZoomInfo is interesting. This could be their back door into the US market. ZoomInfo was an early Web 2.0 success story. I recall when they first came out how quickly they shot up the organic search listings on people searches. They became good enough to break the Google habit; I would often go to ZoomInfo first.
LinkedIn took the wind out of ZoomInfo’s sails. The LinkedIn data is often more accurate and up to date, as users are motivated to update it. ZoomInfo data was based on scraping publicly available data. (I don’t use “scraping” in a pejorative sense, it is a valuable tool and ZoomInfo do it better than most and add some semantic smarts).
On the plus side, ZoomInfo does not require anybody to update their profile. So they get a lot of profiles of people who are not on LinkedIn, the real late adopter majority. In business these are often the baby boomers with bi-focals in the corner office who sign off on the big deals. Valuable people in other words.
To counter-attack, ZoomInfo is moving away from the destination site model to an API driven model. They did this using Mashery. So far they only have two applications listed on their site and guess what, one of them is Xing.
LinkedIn also announced their API, right after Facebook announced their API. However in the US market, where they rule, they face a bit of an Innovator’s Dilemma. Personally I would like news from my network to filter up to some RSS aggregation tool, the rapidly evolving range of information overload coping tools that Marshall writes about. Most busy executives need another destination site to visit as much as (insert favorite dislike here). But LinkedIn makes money on page views. They want apps that encourage me to come to their site more often, not apps that make it easy for me to consume their data wherever I am.
Xing, on the other hand, does not need to play defense in the US market (different story in Germany), so they could, together with ZoomInfo and maybe a big email provider, do a nice end run with an API driven strategy.
This, I must emphasize, is purely my speculation and is not any official Xing strategy as far as I know.
Loic Le Meur, a Frenchman who moved to Silicon Valley, sparked a big debate by telling the world that you need to move to the Valley to go global. I agree with most of what he says - “think global from day one” is my summary - but his conclusion that you have to move to the Valley to do this is increasingly flawed and Xing illustrates why. Why move to the Valley? The same reason Willy Sutton robbed banks - it's where the money is. And, yes, talent flocks to money and the combo of talent and money continues to make the Valley the uber-hub. But follow the money. What happens if the US IPO market remains closed to innovative start-ups? Does the entrepreneur in London move to the Valley for her Series A and B and then return to London for the AIM listing?
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- Is a business oriented social network site useful, and if so how?
- How do Xing and other LinkedIn competitors compare to LinkedIn?
On the first point, the main problem with a business oriented social networking site is the time required to maintain a profile and connect to contacts. Time is a limited resource for professional people.For me the most interesting line comes at the end;
[the] conclusion that you have to move to the Valley...is increasingly flawed and Xing illustrates why. Why move to the Valley? ...it's where the money is. And, yes, talent flocks to money and the combo of talent and money continues to make the Valley the uber-hub. But follow the money. What happens if the US IPO market remains closed to innovative start-ups? Does the entrepreneur in London move to the Valley for her Series A and B and then return to London for the AIM listing?
Given the credit crunch and equity squeeze hitting (primarily) the US, along with the greenback currency woes and Bernard raises a good point.
Until now the US was the place one had to be to raise serious money, create a credible proposition and gain traction. This was, in part, a legacy from the days when all real R&D happened there - Xerox PARC, early MS and Apple days etc. What we're seeing now is a global perspective on startups. From Zoho in India to WorkLight in Israel to Xing in Germany, new powerhouses are appearing that potentially could do some damage to the US primacy.
Look at the fundamentals;
* Generally a good pool of high talent workers
* Lower labour and compliance costs
* Often an attractive regulatory framework
* An ability to begin somewhat in stealth and "under the radar"
So yes it's a fair comment that right now the Valley is the place to be for an internet start-up, but this pseudo prerequisite has almost run out. Look for new areas to come to the fore in the years ahead.
linked in of course LOL
Personally, I have used LinkedIn for over 2 years and I can tell you one thing. They are very one dimensional or Web 1.0. I have over 500 connections...now what? They were great in 2003 but their model is seriously flawed for the coming years or even the last year. Basically all my connections have been uploaded to My Outlook or in Facebook and I login to LinkedIn probably once every 2 to 3 months.
Plus I personally think LinkedIn payment model is very pre-1999 and dirty. They give you the impression that networking in free but then you can restricted in searching more than 100 searches or connecting with others. You are not informed of this before spending hours creating your profile but only after. Oh and you can't delete accounts, so out of their total membership, how many are actually active? (Second Life Hype Syndrome)
Their new re-design clearly shows that they are out of focused. They are not sure what they want to be, facebook or a professional networking site. This is a clear sign that innovation within the company is dying (think of Yahoo a year ago)
Until a new site comes up, I am using my Facebook for Professional Networking. LinkedIn should just sell the company to Google and shut the site down.
The assertion that LinkedIn and XING are business-focused sites annoys me. In my view they are personal sites, just like Facbook - it just so happens that the people they appeal to will be in business rather than in school. But neither site, for me, offers much in the way of business benefits. As John says above, you add your former colleagues and then what? Each users profile talks about their career but nothing about what their company does or why you should deal with them. The upgrades to fee paying enable you to search more online CVs and are obviously geared towards benefitting recruiters alone. Where are the benefits for a business in a LinkedIn or XING listing? Or my staff reconnecting with colleagues? Or them finding new jobs through the site? Or them taking their contacts with them when they leave?
It is interesting to note that many employers now ban access to sites like LinkedIn and XING in the workplace. This would suggest I am not alone in questioning the business benefits.
I predict the new wave of social networking sites will see a proliferaton of specialist sites with a greater focus towards achiveing specific ends, putting behind us the days of a clumsy Facebook profile that attempts to appeal professionally and personally. REAL business social networking sites will put promotion of businesses ahead of individuals. We are working on just such a site and will be launching it next month, aimed at small business owner/managers in particular, by giving them the benefits of online networking, with their existing customers helping them meet new customers. We'll be focusing on the UK first.
We won't kill LinkedIn and XING, but they'll become known for what they are - job sites. It won't be where business people go to grow their customer base or revenues. We hope that by delivering real business benefits all day long we'll have people legitimately using the site for a big part of the 6+ hours a day they spend at their desk, which kind of puts 4.5 minutes a day on LinkedIn into perspective.
And ask me in a year whether we'd have done any better if we'd been based in the Valley!
XING globalization has been interesting and impressive, indeed.
Linkedin to be honest is quite flawed. On LinkedIn, there are people who add you who you don't even know. The whole network is based on strings of connections that you might never use. LinkedIn, in my opinion is good for recruiters and Human Resources as it's product make it clear that It's a ll about getting people employed.
Xing on the other hand is much better, much cleaner and less cluttered than LinkedIn's recent homepage update. Not only Xing is cleaner, It's better with what it has to offer, they have mastered in a number of areas.
Overall, I just closed my LinkedIn account and I am good with my Xing account.
I really like that you brought forward Sarbanes Oxley as an inhibitor to going public with an IPO in the US. I have heard this quite a bit from European CEOs when asking about their strategy and options.
The only time I hear from Xing is from friends in Germany. Alexa shows that 76.4% of their visitors come from Germany, and their next big countries are Austria and Switzerland. So, over 4 mil of their 5 mil members are from Germany/Austria/Switzerland and only 1 mil from the rest of the world (probably Europe and Asia). Similarly, GoogleTrends shows that all of Xing's top 10 cities are German. Even though LinkedIn has never been localized, they are much more popular in Europe and Asia--according to GoogleTrends, top cities include Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Brussels and Delhi. It seems Xing owns Germany, and LinkedIn owns the rest of Europe. Not sure how many of LinkedIn's members are in Europe, but probably more than Xing has worldwide. If LinkedIn ever localizes, then Xing will lose traction in Germany--and that probably explains why the market doesn't give them a high valuation despite page views and lots of revenue per member. Valuations depend on future revenue/profit growth, and those aren't there for what is essentially a site that is only used by Germans or German speakers.
I'm a European who primarily works (read: 'commutes to') in the US while living in Europe. This puts me in a priviliged position to compare things. I think you're post is dead on.
IT and tech innovation has traditionally been on a higher level in the US. Main reason has indeed been the ease of access to VC's. But there is more; it's called Euro skepticism. And in my generation (40 something) it's very much alive. We're much more risk aversive
Globalization, mobility of the Y-gen have all been catalysts for change. A 20 year old european today looks totally different at the US as we did before. I notice much more confidence, i also see a lot more (small scale software) development take place.
I saw it with the i-phone hack-race as well. First off it was amazing to see how many 15 year old kids were able to reverse engineer professionaly developed software in no time. What also struck me was that a lot of those kids were European. What struck me even more was their arrogance and/or self confidence. I also saw something new and that was some sort of "competition" between US based hackers and Europeans. i'm not 100% sure how to assess the latter. I think sociologists probably will try to explain this by talking about the global anti american sentitment that developed itself over the last 8 years. They might be on to something there. 8 years these 1 year old kids were still learning to read. This self confidence thing might over time become a movement. i don't think this is negative, nor do i think this creates "us against them" effects. But it is creating a new form of "us". Something Europe (and the UK still) has ever known. We were to busy figthing over our local interests
There is certainly something changing but it won't happen overnight either. SOX or not. The IT investment climate in (continental) Europe still sucks. Most It accitivies inb Europe are sales and post sales (service) channel oriented operations.
Our sckepticism still nips too many opportunities in the bud. The climate also is less IT/tech oriented. The aforementioned risk aversion and the recent bubble bursts in the US don't help either. Xing is a great example of a less hyped but probably more sound initiative. Because of the no nonense monetization focus the platform has attracted more professional profiles and less opportunistic users. It are those opportustic users that potentialy can kill the usefullness of the platform. Not being skypetical can quickly turn into hype and hype can create serious negative effects...
Xing, even across europe hasn't gotten the same amount of exposure than linkedin, but perhaps that is a good thing in the long run?
Maybe there is more innovation amongs youngsters but mobility of money still is a problem. Openess to new stuff in the US just is better. The brain drain still occurs. Look at Drupal, look at Skype, etc. They're all in US hands
But the fact that i can list more european initiatives than i could 10 years ago (SAP, BO and Sage being some examples) is an indication of something that is moving.
And what if US stagflation really becomes reality? How interesting will things be for local and international investors to invest in USD driven initiatives.
The world is indeed changing..
Koen
@Oliver Hilpert:
"It seems Xing owns Germany, and LinkedIn owns the rest of Europe."
What about neurona.com? The largest contact online business network in Spain and Latin America is a XING Company.
What about cember.net? The largest professional network of its kind in Turkey was acquired by XING this January.
Just my two cents...
Great article!
The alexa data about xing is not correct, because it doesn't show figures for neurona and cember.net. So at all only 40 percent of xing members are german speaking.
What is also important to mention: xing has more paying members than linkedin. I think this the most amazing thing if you look on both of them.
I see that in my own contacs: in xing 20% pay for this service, but no one of my linkedin contacts pays linkedin!
"and Sarbanes Oxley regulation was a disincentive. Those two Senators have sure done a lot of good for European and Asian companies, by weakening the US IPO market and therefore the capital raising capability of US companies."
The reason for the law is that US companies ripped off investors. As far as I am concerned if they find it so onerous to follow the law then they will probably find it to difficult to keep proper accounting records and follow GAP.
If we could count on the ethics of executives then maybe we could do away with S/O. But since the underlying issues that lead to so much criminal behavior still exist I think S/O will be around until CEO money can overwhelm investor money.
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I live in the UK and use both.
LinkedIn serves the MBA-type community that I am connected with in the UK. It is a useful place to keep track of people you don't immediately do business with.
Xing is challenging for English users and not many UK resident use it. It is much easier and friendlier though and you get a much bigger bang for your buck. It is much, much cheaper and you can see all "6 degrees" between yourself and anyone else. People are much more widely connected and you can write to someone, introduce yourself and engage in a conversation.
I agree with one of the comments that you do little business on these sites. Their main use is getting oriented.
Having said that, within 24 hours of joining Xing, I got a message from someone visiting my small town. We happened to be in the same field and have become very good friends.
So friendlier, more networked and more active. I put some statistics somewhere on my blog.
Whatever their merits, can you afford not to be on linkedin and xing. In this day and age,it looks so odd when you are not!
Great one.
I am an American living in Sweden and very excited about the prospects that I see for startups in Europe. Entrepreneurs, talent, climate, and money are making it happen.
Between the political problems, immigration law problems, international relations problems, financial problems, credibility problems, etc. the tipping point has been crested.
Silicon Valley ain't going away, but its market share is falling. Same as Wall Street's market share vs. London's in terms of trading.
The more time I've spent here (a few years now) the more I realize that my previous perception -- and I think that of many/most Americans -- was wrong. In areas from health care to finance, from mobile phone technology to broadband speed (and cost), Europe leads.
I give a big hat tip to everybody who is making it happen over here. Keep it up. The pie is big enough. It's not a a scarcity thing. There can and will be hubs on both continents and that's a good thing.
Cheers,
chrisco
None of this will matter soon, once we complete our new ERP and Biz platform we will become the dominate biz platform! Muahahahahaha
I did a podcast last week with Xing co-founder Bill Liao where he said he didn't like to compare themselves to LinkedIn because he believes they are very different services.
http://gdayworld.thepodcastnetwork.com/2008/03/11/gday-world-318-bill-liao/
My best compliments to Mr. Bernard who wrote this article!
I think it's in fact the first time when somebody has considered so much seriously Europe as an important market for Business Networking! :)
I am very active on LinkedIn for 4+ years, and recently I am a part of LinkedIn supporter Club in Italy (http://www.milanin.com) (we are not part of LinkedIn strategy and not sponsored by LD), so it's my best concern to "know" and believe LinkedIn is the King... but honestly... it was probably too long to wait when LinkedIn comes to Europe!
And I think it still has remained a stuff for USA + of course a worldwide leader but w/o any local presence- no good understanding of that the EU market is DIFFERENT, no translation, no physical representation (offices), no local Marketing/ Brand development, no off-line activity which is very important in Europe- we know it for sure we do off-line events for LinkedIn member in Italy and so on.
well, Xing is VERY different. Xing Team is attentive to details, has an advanced platform (Web 2.0, with tagging, etc- LD will have something similar if a few months/ year not early?) and after the recent merge with Neurona, Xing has all the chances to beat LinkedIn in Europe! and here in Europe we have also Viadeo which grows and grows (and so will be eaten soon by Xing? :lol:).
Xing is very popular in Italy and it's still to-come officially here, today is only presented by Neurona.it, so can you imagine what happened when they open an office, assign a Marketing/ Events Team etc.
So the answer on "which Network is more useful" question is always depends on "useful for WHAT?". In my case most projects I am involved in are worldwide, so I use an will always use LinkedIn heavily.
But there are tons of people around me which make business networking and claim LinkedIn "is too far from their requirements". and I may agree.
and another comments will be for "most people on Xing speak German"- it's a very traditional error for USA people: consider any other language as just a local language for a country. No, guys, German is NOT a local language for Germany :) German is the second important language in Europe. So, of course all/most people who speak German will stay on Xing!
So my conclusion will be that LinkedIn is still the King worldwide and I wish them to remain the King! but it's loosing European market for sure. Especially the MARKET, not just the number of "registered members".
99% of people I Network with, from EU, are "normal" users on LinkedIn, and I think not less than 80% of them are PREMIUM on Xing.
Be PRESENTED, LinkedIn, and you'll probably win also the EU battle. But if it's gonna go as it's going now- in a year or 2 as max, LD will remain just "a cool Network to be counted within", at the same time people will PAY MONEY to Xing and/or Viadeo, which are local, which know better what the EU users want, etc.
well, the last comment is IF the business model of LinkedIn is google-ads based- so it's OK that only few people buy them for premium services. At the same time the model of Xing is for sure PREMIUM services-based and the guys get some good money from their "smaller" network. it's out of doubts.
my disclaimer: I am a co-founder and VP of a LinkedIn supporter Club in Italy and was LinkedIn Evangelist/Blogger for the years, so it's my best to love LinkedIn. I just tried to make some analytics, and it has nothing to deal with my "religion" (which still remain "LinkedIn is the King!").
Kind Regards, Andrey Golub
http://www.spock.com/Andrey-Golub
http://www.linkedin.com/in/andreygol
http://www.milanin.com/members/andrey.golub/
It seems to me that Europe is just to big to make swooping statements like Andrey Golubs
"So my conclusion will be that LinkedIn is still the King worldwide and I wish them to remain the King! but it's loosing European market for sure. Especially the MARKET, not just the number of "registered members"."
In The Netherlands, I remember receiving a few invites to Xing a couple of years ago but it quickly died down. LinkedIn on the other hand, pretty much exploded here in the past 18 months.
There seems to me another reason, besides the VC, to go to Sillicon Valley - one that's all to often overlooked. It's where all the world wide opinion makers are. You can run into any number of journalists , online personalities and 'serial entrepeneurs' there just by hanging out in the right restaurants. If that gets you a mention on someone's blog or news article - you can't pay for that kind of exposure.
Hans,
you are totally right- Europe is too big, and TOO DIFFERENT!
So I was just stressing that it's probably not the best strategy for LinkedIn to not pay enough attention to this region and just believe it will be enough to be "the King" (in general) to win over any local player (Europe is Big, but then Russia?, China?, South America?).
about Xing in Holland- I have no data, so will leave this to comment to anybody aware. but there is one thing Hans- just tell me who's can't speak English in Holland? do you know at least one guy? :) I have tons of friends there and they all speak English at the same good level as their Dutch. Maybe this is the key for why LD wins Xing as from your words?
so, UK and Holland can easily accept LD w/o any effort from the side of Marketing Team of LD. but what's about the others? Spain- France- Germany- Swiss- Italy (Viadeo has 100.000 members in Italy, Neurona even more. LinkedIn is a bit near, but only for now!)?
and I am not talking about the Eastern Europe, like Poland and the neighbors. and well, Russia has "its own LinkedIN" (and btw "its own facebook"), since Russian business is too big to be placed inside an English UI borders.
try to think about it.
I am convinced that at least for BUSINESS Networking, the LOCAL presence, the BRAND, the Marketing force, the Promo Events, co-marketing with local brands and etc- this is the key!
Take as example the Viadeo for Italy statistics? they've grown "from zero" to 100.000 in a few months, due to the great attention to the local Networking Events and some investments to the Team and promo campaigns made.
and Xing is still-to-arrive, hope to see the great Business Networking war here soon!
at the same time for non-business networking, I feel myself very comfortable with Facebook for example and I don't really mind it to get organized a Networking Event in the center of Milan for example. "Powered by Facebook" has no sense :) But "Powered by LinkedIn" could put some great power inside European Business Networking!
well, it's just my 5 cents, but based on 3+ years of active Business Networking and promoting this activity worldwide.
Reading the above article and comments, there are two issues which emerge:
A passive user creates a profile to be found: by head hunters or potential suppliers. An active user will scour data on contacts, direct and indirect, looking for potential customers. How useful this is to you really depends on what you do professionally – and what you want to do.
As a side note, is giving your e-mail account username and password to third party websites really a good idea? If so, please give me the keys to your house.... Use the import csv or vcard methods where supported.
Another point to keep in mind is the difference between a social network site and a business oriented site. The primary difference is in the type of data tracked and the usage patterns of that data. Business oriented sites are focused on what you should be doing during the work day; they don't track your religion, sexual orientation and relationship status – data useful for evening and weekend activity.
On the second point, LinkedIn is the acknowledged leader in English speaking markets and for global professionals who speak English as a foreign language. Yet many professionals in larger European countries often use a business oriented social networking site which speaks their language. Sometimes in parallel with LinkedIn, sometimes to the exclusion of LinkedIn. The primary sites are Viadeo in France, Neurona in Spain, and Xing (previously known as OpenBC) in Germany. Viadeo is making the most headway in Italy, having opened an office here a year ago. Neurona seems to suffer from too many low quality marketing proposals.
I took a look at each of these players last year in my article Online Marketing with LinkedIn and other Business Oriented Social Networking Websites. Since then the membership numbers have increased and Xing has bought Neurona, but I believe the general conclusions are still valid.
Sean Carlos
Antezeta Web Marketing - SEO Services
Milan Italy
Hans you make a very interesting point:
"There seems to me another reason, besides the VC, to go to Sillicon Valley - one that's all to often overlooked. It's where all the world wide opinion makers are. You can run into any number of journalists , online personalities and 'serial entrepeneurs' there just by hanging out in the right restaurants. If that gets you a mention on someone's blog or news article - you can't pay for that kind of exposure."
Yes but...I am based in New York, Richard McManus is based in New Zealand, RWW has writers in Valley and all over the place and our readers are all over the place. And the facts tend to speak for themselves if they (the facts) find a place to congregate. The Comments section of a post like this helps facts to congregrate (as well as very helpful advice from Steve Ballmer of course).
Opinion based on facts win. Opinion based on the opinions of the last 10 guys you met at a coffee shop....
It always amazes me that Valley people proclaim the death of distance and sell all the services that kill distance and then turn around and say you cannot make it unless you hang out at Bucks or a coffee shop in Palo Alto. Come on guys you don't have enough coffee for that and the carbon damage getting everybody into the Valley would be pretty horrible!
I for one would love to see how that 5 million figure is arrived at. Xing's accountants must have been hired from Enron???
Xing had 2.25m users in Europe a few months ago, mostly Germans and German speakers.
It bought a dying network called eConzoco with only 150k accounts (although some Xing blogs claimed 350k :)). I hear only 30% joined Xing are eConozco was closed.
Neurona had 850k members most of whom joined from a job board when their CVs were copied across. Not real users.
There is serious double and triple counting between the Xing, Neurona and eConozco members in Spain.
They now bought a network in Turkey with 280k members.
So we have nearly two million ghost members - like the ghost army in Lord of the Rings.
I think Lars failed math :)
Now I don't believe Linked'in has 20 million members either!
Why this nonsense about making up numbers with fake accounts, users that left years ago, double counting and Enron maths.
Just report your paying users!!
Bill, I agree, paying users and page views are what matters. Paying users is clear and simple math - # users * subscription cost = revenue. Xing are very clear on that front. Page views matter 'cos that determines CPM ad revenue. That is on the public record through services such as Comscore. The total number of users is relatively meaningless and can too easily be gamed.
Xing claims to be the largest social network worldwide if you count paying members only.
Here is the source (German):
http://zitronenkern.de/2008/02/28/xing-meldet-ueber-400000-zahlende-kunden/
I am on both networks and imho, LinkedIn is even worse than Plaxo. How can Loic even appreciate the Valley if he knows that some European apps are much more Web 2.0 & globalized than e.g. LinkedIn?
Xing of course has some downfalls, but the user experience (and where do you look at it from this POV?) is better than on LinkedIn.
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