Screencasts of Twine's Facelift; Does It Live Up to the Hype?
We've chronicled semantic web service Twine's birth, checkered youth, and recent woes in terms of traffic waning and criticism waxing.
We've been given screencasts of the new version of this knowledge management application - screencasts of both the consumer- and developer-facing facets of the site. Take a look, and let us know if the new Twine lives up to expectations. This new version, we are told, will be live by the end of the year.
The consumer product promises to supplant keyword search by treating the web like a huge database, with filtering capabilities that allow users to pare down search results to only the most relevant, applicable, and useful links.
Developers and other techies can check out this screencast exploring Twine's collaboratively authored ontologies:
The Twine folks see the new version as a realization of Tim Berners-Lee's vision of the semantic web. So what do ReadWriteWeb readers think; is the new Twine worth the wait? Does it live up to the hype? Leave your expert comments below.
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No chance. It's still search
I was actually really digging twine when it first came out. My problem is, it didn't really fit an immediate need. It was nice to use, but there wasn't anything that I *had* to come back for.
Twine in Freefall?
http://www.semanticsincorporated.com/2009/09/twine-in-freefall.html
What? Looks like Looksmart from 1996!
Excellent point Joseph. I also can't see it fitting any immediate need. Old school search engines already give quite relevant answers. If Twine manages to get huge userbase it will eventually be a lot better, but I don't think their search results are going to be "web-wide" anytime soon.
However it will be excellent tool for web designers who want to "outsource" search. Finding relevant products, for example, will be a lot easier when you can add and search metadata event if the original site has just plain html markup. We'll see how easy that is going to be by end of the year.
Old school search frustrates me all the time. This new Twine version shows potential to me!
Like mk said, key here is how easy it will be to create ontologies and add markup.
As to search Twine is only one app to use. There will be loads of new ones that will be useful in whole new ways once the web starts to be more semantic, when it lends itself to be questioned like a "database", using SPARQL or any other technique. (Good startingpoint is http://www.talis.com/nodalities/)(it is a bit technical, but new concepts often are)
Just think about how useful mashups are to us. Not only will a larger part of the web be mashable, but the ways we can drill down through the data will allow us to follow different paths depending on our needs and lines of thought.
This will be very interesting to watch and try.
Posted by: https://services.mozilla.com/openid/jchris
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September 19, 2009 2:54 AM
Thinking of Twine as yet another search engine is missing the point. I use it for my research project (a la "Open Notebook Science') - http://www.twine.com/twine/12h08r7th-12x/designing-bio-inspired-knowledge-and-technical-ecosystems-to-augment-collective-intelligence . It works fine and I plan to grow the project into an "open source" research hub, using Twine
In OWLy day dreams Twine is more than just another search engine. In those OWLy day dreams it is Wolfram with entire web as backend. The problem is not with availability of data, but computational challenges in combining it.
I am not trying to say that the project is doomed, but rather that Twine itself is not going to make retrieving information smarter anytime soon. Meanwhile Twine will of course be a nice social "information center", but as suchs it is just another collaboration tool.
If you think of Twine as something more, please enlighten us.
I signed up for Twine soon after it went into invite-only beta, but I never grasped what was unique about it. Its semantic features were completely unintuitive to me. To me it just seemed like a clunkier version of Delicious. I hope the new version has better, more intuitive documentation, because I had high hopes for the service the first time around.
THIS is the thing they think is "the breakthrough"?
So they basically took their standard old search filter and instead of having it as a vertical column that then drills down, they decided to put it as horizontal tabs across the top.
Wow, is that a real innovation or just more UI cosmetics like they do with every single release? It's not even original since other semantic search engines did that......24 months ago!
As for the ontology authoring tool, they had one in Twine 1.0 and almost nobody bothered to add their own semantic tags to content. That's why RN quietly shelved it and now they're resurrecting it as a new breakthrough?!
Facelift's the right word. It's more cosmetic, not a structural game changer.
Does it live up to the hype? NOPE, still not interested and it doesn't look like it will get Twine back up that uniques curve from which it's spectacularly dived, 95% drop according to some.
I've tested Twine when it first came out and stuck with it for awhile. I get the concept of semantic web but with its slow features it's going to be challenging for Twine to gain the critical mass to fulfill its potential as semanctic search. Need more than just a facelift.
Twine doesn't need a facelift, it needs brain surgery and a bypass. They've run out of good ideas and don't seem to have the heart to do anything different.
Twiner,
So, you think there are too many semantic search engines? :)
I don't know of any other that would be even at Twine's level.
From R/R/W, October 2008 (http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/twine_public_launch.php)
--- We were told that Twine has had 500,000 unique visitors in its closed beta, of which 50,000 are currently "active".
--- In terms of Twine's roadmap, in 2008 their focus is on usability - which Spivack says is "currently 80% there".
--- Twine claims it has implemented "major performance fixes", which Spivack said has resulted in "very dramatic speed-ups".
--- At various stages in the interview he also said that Twine "can do better than google reader" (as an RSS Reader) and it is better than StumbleUpon, Digg, Facebook.
Let's take this one at a time.
See Twine in Freefall? http://www.semanticsincorporated.com/2009/09/twine-in-freefall.html
In closed beta they had 500,000 uniques. In August 2009 they had what looks like sub-100K (look at the compete graphic).
If Spivack thinks the UI and usability is 80% there and the users have continued to complain about it then obviously the company's not on the same page or talking the same lingo as users.
Major performance fixes. Do they mean the InterestFeed that's still clogging up? Why is CyHyoung Park commenting on the platform's slowness?
Twine is better than StumbledUpon, DIGG and Facebook? Uh, Facebook has 300+ MILLION REGISTERED USERS now. Within its first year of launch it not only had consistent POSITIVE BUZZ (unlike Twine) 85% of the students in the supported colleges had a Facebook account, with 60% of them logging in daily.
http://mashable.com/2006/08/25/facebook-profile/
Anyone with the pro version of compete, quantcast etc can track back to the first year of SU, DIGG and FB metrics. You'll all see that a year after public launch, NONE of them had a uniques count lower than when they were in beta or closed community.
Better than SU, DIGG and FB? Spivack needs a reality check!
Twiner,
I agree with those points. I don't exactly understand why they are trying to compare themself Reader, Digg or Facebook (wtf?). And user interface is still crap.
The thing is that there are no (that I would know of) competitors that would be even close to what Twine promises to be. That is, bring semantic web to public. And none said that would be easy.
The commenter(s) above who cite Compete.com are misinformed in their interpretations of Twine's uniques. Compete.com is not an authoritative source, it only shows estimates of traffic, and the estimates are less accurate for smaller sites (less than many millions of monthly uniques): the margin of error in their algorithm's traffic estimates is larger the smaller the site's traffic. When things go up, Compete estimates very high. When they go down, Compete estimates very low. The actual numbers are usually somewhere in between. Twine is likely doing significantly better than Compete is showing. Still numbers are definitely down, but generally not nearly what Compete will estimate.
Dear Factuals (aka Radar Networks spokesperson),
The person(s) whose representation of compete’s metrics are open to question are Radar Networks (“RN”). It’s noticeable that RN aligned themselves with compete’s numbers when Twine supposedly showed “explosive growth” and supposedly surpassed delicious. Yet as soon as compete shows Twine’s 2,000,000+ uniques tumble RN claims: “Compete.com is not an authoritative source…..”
Even more interestingly, when Nova Spivack invited Greg Boutin to examine Twine’s internal numbers in February 2009 Greg wrote this:
* http://www.semanticsincorporated.com/2009/02/as-promised-interview-with-twine-on-the-usability-question.html
Subsequently, according to Greg, Nova Spivack libeled him on Twitter before deleting the offending tweets; instead of tackling the very serious issues about delivery of a UI + usability to service user engagement and the reduction of spam, Nova seems to be adopting a not particularly enlightened approach towards user respect.
I personally had already consistently voiced concerns that Twine’s uniques count was possibly inflated by spam, links to suitable content sites (e.g. porn) as well as duplications. The duplications issue was a major point during User Feedback throughout beta and during live, so any claims by RN that users didn’t raise it is………misrepresentative of users' desire and commitment to reduce it.
Independently from my concerns about Twine’s metrics and its possible composition, another core original member posted this:
* http://xosfaere.wordpress.com/2009/02/27/twine-a-vision-lost/
RN has had A LOT OF TIME + USER TOLERANCE to fix key issues --- particularly the UI, usability, duplications and spam; as soon as core original users saw any issues they reported it…..and suggested improvements. Yet instead of the spam being reduced, it was prevalent as recently as 25 July 2009:
* http://xosfaere.wordpress.com/2009/07/25/twam/
Now, today I met a reputation management specialist whose clients include a US$2+ billion VOIP provider. I asked for his advice about how companies should behave and communicate towards former champions and advocates whom the company had alienated and whose goodwill it had lost. His advice was, “The last thing the company should do is libel their former advocates. It’s unprofessional.”
mk,
You commented above: "That is, bring semantic web to public." Since no one seems to have answered you, let me try.
Microsoft has already brought semantic web to public; Bing integrates MS's previous acquisition of Powerset into search. Elsewhere, Google has been increasingly deploying semantics in its search and other verticals; google "semantic google" and there's a wealth of links about Google's thoughts, work and deployment in this area.
Moreover, Google Squared was announced at the same time as wolfram alpha so your comment about "In OWLy day dreams Twine is more than just another search engine. In those OWLy day dreams it is Wolfram with entire web as backend" is interesting. What are the prospects for Google --- with its engineering resources, known Adsense model, Google Earth location and YouTube video search --- achieving that OWLy dream before others?
On the collaborative networks side, Google Wave is likely to launch in Q4. I met its product manager several years ago so have some idea of its orientation.
Then this morning I had an interesting chat with one of Google's Heads of Search. He noted how much innovation is happening at the company and in the space. It's probable I'll collaborate with Google on my contextualization solutions.
Watch the semantic space, as they say.
The person posting as "Twain" aka Twain Luu was kicked out of Twine for breaking rules, harrassing other users and threatening them.
But that was like a year ago already. Get over it!
Twain, you are mentally unstable and obsessed with revenge. You're not a banker -- you don't have a job -- you just sit at home and pretend to be an authority and mostly you just try to get revenge on all the people who wronged you blah blah blah. Seriously, get a life.
Poor Twain Luu. Still can't think about anything but revenge. Pathetic.
Dude, just ignore Twain Luu. Twain Luu ("Twain") is some crazy Chinese woman in China who was obsessed with Twine and various people both in the company and in the community of the site -- she was kicked out of Twine. Every time she posts she just gets crazier and crazier. She uses lots of aliases and sometimes uses her own name too. Ignore. But I feel sorry for her. She is mentally disturbed and very unhappy person. She needs medication and therapist. But seriously, dude, just ignore her.
Whoever is posting as DSL or B.P. would be advised not to libel Twain in any way or to falsely impersonate DSL since he writes in a certain style and with a signature. Moreover, DSL and Twain have no beef with each other so for the impersonator to (for want of a better word) s***-stir is somewhat irresponsible on their part.
DSL decided to focus on his company to-do's and reduce his Twining; Twain has been busy with her projects until some friends flagged her on 'Twine in freefall?'.
She is neither crazy, obsessed with Twine, mentally disturbed nor unhappy. If she was she would have commented on the fastcompany and other techblogs when Twine was claiming it had beaten delicious back in May/June 2009 or on any other blog mentioning Twine. She did none of those things so clearly has no obsession with Twine.
Additionally, she's never identified herself as a banker but as a "FORMER BANKER" so please pay attention to the details. It's inaccuracies and nonsense like that which means the difference between people knowing what they're talking about or simply coming across as silly.
Moreover, she doesn't live in China and wasn't excluded from Twine on those grounds at all so you should get your facts right there also --- particularly since she has all the screenshots which clearly show RN and Nova's violation of the company-user agreements and relationships.
Now, a simple economics lesson: ONLY THE MARKET CAN GET REVENGE ON ANY COMPANY.
If it doesn't deliver, users who've put in a lot of positive effort feel deeply disappointed, some users go seek the services elsewhere, their non-return isn't good because uniques plummet, there's cash burn by investors to find users again from scratch, and if it gets worse there's possibly little chance of recovery leading to fire sale etc.
Anyone with common sense who's been in the tech sector for a while knows this.
Anyway, she stands by everything she's written above and no amount of bullying from RN (whether impersonating DSL or otherwise) can ever destroy her strength of character or intelligence on these issues.
The fact that Twine and RN is in their current situation is the team's own responsibility. Making personal attacks on Twain doesn't change that nor the fact that they'd be a lot smarter to think of ways to get themselves out of it rather than obsessing about Twain's comments and trying to silence her.
Since there are those here who don't have any reference point for Twain, her personal motto is: "Be guardians of the good."
From this, you can each work out whether she is indeed crazy or not. Moreover, without exception, the core original members of Twine chose to come and find her on Facebook and other social networks after she was excluded from Twine. Now, if she was "crazy" as the DSL impersonator and B.P. want to libel her as, it's unlikely that the core original members of Twine would want to continue interacting with her, right?
See? So we can soon work out who's providing the rationales and who's simply slurring, libeling and engaging in underhand nonsense.
Practices which Greg Boutin separately and independently noted about Nova Spivack.
Since Twain has no desire to involve herself further with Twine or its team's nonsense (including any impersonated comments from others), she will NOT be commenting further on this thread, thus avoiding whatever flames others may want to instigate.
In due course, the two documentaries she's been involved with will be released (one as an interviewee, one as an offscreen contributor to the production). Importantly, her key projects in collaboration with friends will be completed.
That's what she's obsessed with, definitely not Twine. For her, its nightmare died many months ago and she rediscovered the ability to dream with others elsewhere.
Watch the Semantic space, all.
Wherever you go Twain. I will find you and expose you. I'm a hacker, remember. Do you read WIRED???? You know I'm 4 Real.
You started this. You threatened ME remember? Did you think I would just forget? After all the s*** you put me through with RN?
I don't forget.
So do yourself a favor and vanish. I got kicked out, so you got kicked out. Fair is fair. Accept it.
Don't try to deflect this onto RN or anyone else. Don't try to libel the RN team or anyone else. You know what you did to me. This is your karma Twain. Look it up in the dictionary. Your people practically invented the term. You should know how it works.
Twain is just a cyber stalker, DSL. Seriously why don't BOTH of you just let go of it already?
Twain and DSL ...
Umm.... Can you guys please get a room already???
This has been the longest non-hookup in history.
Please just get it over with.
For all our sakes.
Please be serious. This is a very serious conversation.
Let’s get some things clear:
(1.) This post is about Twine’s upcoming UI features and whether it has any legs. Some commentators want to give it a shot, some clearly won’t.
(2.) Twain came onto this post to point out that Twine’s improvements will have to include increases in usability and reduction in spam and duplication since that’s what users want, and Twine’s track record to date on these issues hasn’t been great.
(3.) To mk’s question about semantics going commercial, Twain provided commentary about MS Bing, Google’s soon-to-be-released products and developments in the semantic space.
She’s, by-and-large, centered her observations around what’s happening in the semtech space and how companies need to service their users or they get into all kinds of issues.
Meanwhile, other commentators (possibly DSL, possibly posing as DSL) decide to come onto the post and libel her about her supposed “craziness” and desire for revenge?
Let’s check who is the vengeful, threatening and obsessed cyber stalker:
"Wherever you go Twain. I will find you and expose you. I'm a hacker, remember....
I don't forget.
So do yourself a favor and vanish. I got kicked out, so you got kicked out. Fair is fair. Accept it." (Commentator #25).
So Commentator #25 is the one tracking Twain, threatening her, engaging in illegal hacking and obsessing about some wrong she apparently did to him: s*** that lead to him being kicked out of Twine.
The fact is Twain was completely unaware that DSL got kicked out of Twine until the above commentator wrote so.
Therefore if DSL has been kicked out of Twine that has nothing whatsoever to do with Twain. That’s a DSL-Nova issue. As far as she was aware, DSL was still on Twine long after her exclusion. He just decided to reduce his twining because he was busy. On the VB thread as recently as February 2009, several months after Twain's exclusion, he was still talking about his twines and how he was posting less to them.
For Twain, the issues around Twine have never been about any Twain-Nova-DSL-Chesterfield-whomever show.
IT’S BEEN ABOUT USERS AND THEIR CONCERNS ABOUT TWINE NOT DELIVERING --- DESPITE THE COLLECTIVE CONTRIBUTIONS OF MANY.
Now, really, instead of these ridiculous personal attacks the person(s) commenting about Twain would be smarter to write something intelligent about what Twine needs to do to get new users and not to keep disappointing its existing users.
The core ones are disappointed; if they weren’t, they wouldn’t blog about it or comment about it on other social networks.
They don’t do that because they have some “revenge” or "obsession" thing going on with Twine or the team. They do that because they wished that Twine had become what they hoped, imagined and worked towards with all their feedback. Unfortunately, it’s not.
*******************************
To DSL / person posing as DSL,
Whatever your issues are about being kicked out of Twine, you need to resolve them with Nova. Twain had nothing to do with you being kicked out since she has no influence with Nova on those matters, especially following her own exclusion.
What’s the probability of her being able to get Nova to kick you out when he didn't even listen to her advice about structuring conflict resolution properly within Twine, allowing a panel of users to openly discuss any violations of ToS, voting on it democratically, and issuing offending users with formal warnings (three times first) before they’re excluded.
Answer: none. Nova didn't listen to reasonable advice or standard operating procedures like that from Twain. He kicks people out to his own personal basis, so if you're still upset and sore about that send him some emails.
If you have concerns about Twine and its performance, please do raise them to RN team via their own systems and on threads. If you have an anger about being kicked out of Twine, please raise it directly with Nova not Twain. She wasn’t even aware of your exclusion until this thread.
That’s that.
When Twine set out, Twain was interested in this possibility that it would become a realization of what HG Wells noted about "knitting a world of people together through common interests." Nova blogged about that.
However, over time, it became clear during miscommunications between users, poorly managed moderation by RN team and pure flames arising from trolls and people's ego vendettas against others that Twine could not bind people together. From its metrics it becomes clear that it's not the reason people decide to sticky or not. At the end of the day, it's just a system.
The qualities which bind people together, to stay loyal with a platform are actually in.....THE PEOPLE themselves, not the system.
The people connections Twain made on Twine have stood the tests of time --- even if the system seems to have unravelled (according to various external metrics) and not delivered on those original promises. Instead of sharing their interests with Twain via Twine, the original users do so on other social networks.
It's the PEOPLE, not the system, that make something work. Be lucky enough to share with good ones and your ideas and life with flourish.
Will Twine's new features work? Well, that depends. Do they have the commitment of the same champions they did when they first set out? Will those people step up to the plate and promote Twine with the same goodwill they did before?
How can RN team incentivize them to do so this time?
Will those users consider carefully the way their suggestions during beta and during a year of live weren't implemented --- like the spam and duplication reduction requests. Will they think about the time they gave and wasted? Will they think about how RN has treated them?
That's what matters: the people still on the system, not Twain.
Anyone who doesn't "get" it must have their heads buried in the sand.
DSL, Twain can dish it out but she can't take it when it comes back her way.
As they say, be careful when throwing s*** around; you are bound to get splattered.
Twain -- your are hurting your own credibility by posting rants, misinformation and personal attacks. It is time to stop.
DSL -- you have not been a member of Twine for a long time so just forget this and move on.
Watching the semantic space to see Twain's new "stealth project" semantic software when it launches. Oooooh, I'm so impressed... NOT.
Meh.
A Twine competitor or Twine client perhaps? Kewl. I'm not Twine Fan #1 anymore either. Just didn't find Twine useful to be honest. So many other tools I use more often.
But mostly I am looking forward to acquiring r00t access to Twain's app server and laptop, when it launches. ;)
... just kidding Twain. Joke. Don't worry.
Twain's credibility, account of Twine's history and how it's the users not the system that make something successful is fine, thanks for your concern.
IF (in capitals) that is DSL and he's been kicked out of Twine, people need to ask:
(1.) Why has RN been kicking out, libeling and alienating its advocates and champions?
* DSL, as R/R/W regulars will recall, was Twine's chief cheerleader so why did Nova choose to kick him out? If Twain is "crazy" as this "DSL" claims, how is it possible that Nova would have listened to someone crazy and kicked DSL out?
Answer: Twain is clearly not crazy. Nova kicked DSL out for his own reasons.
* Greg Boutin has commented previously on Nova libeling him on Twitter even though Greg tried to be positive towards the system and tried to help in terms of management and marketing/PR suggestions.
* Bent Rasmussen and other core original users who have done nothing but make smart and positive contributions through user feedback and their content. Why would Bent blog about the unacceptable levels of spam on Twine if it doesn't annoy the users and make the system ridiculous to use? Bent is well-known to be fair and to give technologies chances.
* Twain who provided user guides, handheld newbies along with other core users and tried to make the symbiosis between the company-the users-the content-the context work.
Yes and she still has all the emails and IMs from Nova begging her:
--- "Please don't leave, stay on Twine. You are Twine, Twain.'
--- "Please can you help with this newbie. He's in China and wants to know..."
--- "Please can you do this user guide...."
Of course, he then turns around and stabs her in the back for all her positive contributions.
(2.) Is the reason Twine's metrics are tumbling due to it no longer having champions and advocates representing the platform positively? Plus the decline of their own usage because they're sick of the spam and nonsense there?
(3.) Why did Nova not invite DSL back into the fold?
After all, following Twain's first exclusion the core users campaigned on her behalf and Nova invited her back in (including with promises to restore all the users' content RN team had decimated).
As for your veiled threats about Twain's semantic application, two things:
(1.) "Watch the Semantic space" is clearly a reference to the upcoming Google Wave, Google Squared and other semantic commercializations of the tech giants.
You probably didn't follow the chain of logic in the thread and arrived at the wrong context, again.
(2.) Well, you can try and hack Google's servers since that's who she's likely to collaborate with in its commercial release.
Finally, to this "DSL" character and anyone else whose intention is to try to intimidate, threaten, libel, trash or character assassinate Twain, if any harm or negativity happens to Twain, her properties or her loved ones the authorities will know where to look and who to look at on this thread and others for suspects.
That's not a threat. That's an observation of legal process that's being shared.
Yawn. Seriously Twain. You have no sense of humor. It was a joke. RELAX. Nothing is going to happen to your computers. I'm not interested in hacking you. It would be too easy ;)
As for the rest of your points, I love the "Twain is clearly not crazy" point. ROTFL.
Twain, you represent what, 5 or 6 angry users of Twine by what I can see?
News Flash: There are a hundreds of thousands of people who use Twine and like it.
Notice that it's mainly just you and maybe one or two other haters complaining over and over? The vast majority just like Twine and are using it happily.
Too bad you got kicked out of the clubhouse. You are obviously never going to get over that.
And for all your complaining about spam, let's not forget that YOU were kicked out for spamming all the members of Twine many times. You just wouldn't stop. Even when kicked out and let back in, you kept spamming.
Actually there really is hardly any spam in Twine TODAY, now that you are gone. I for one complained about your spams many times. You harrassed me, remember?
You refer to spam that no longer exists. Your arguments are out-dated. And you don't take responsibility for your own actions that led to you getting banned. Grow up.
I second that. Twain, you do not represent the majority of Twiners. You never did. You definitely don't now that you haven't been a member for a year or so.
Why don't you just get on with your life instead of flaming people and acting like you represent us? You are not our representative. You never were. You were not even the representative of the power users. We do not all agree with your views.
I find your perspective on Twine very out-dated and full of inaccuracies.
You are not a Twiner. You are just whiner.
Yep, agreed. Twain is not our representative and never was. Whatever spam she's referring to is not there today. There was some spam at one point before the service had an anti-spam filter. I saw some posts about that in the past but I don't see much spam now. I think they also remove it pretty quickly when any gets reported.
... watching this thread is like a mixture of comedy and horror.
It's unfortunate that Twain's extremism and grandstanding caused the gradual end of the power users community. She destroyed that community and poisoned what was formerly a collaborative relationship between the power users and RN. It never recovered from her disruptive attempts to dominate. Such a waste.
I'm not saying that how RN handled her was without error -- they didn't handle it very well -- IMHO they should have kicked her out much earlier and never let her back in a second time.
And when they kicked her out they should not have accidentally deleted some of her content. That was unfortunate. But it was an accident, and the fact is, she had many second chances. I think they pretty much bent over backwards to accommodate her and only when she left them no other choice did they finally kick her out.
Anyway it's time to put this chapter of history to rest don't you think? That was like a year ago. The Twine community has moved on. They are out of beta, there is no more power users community. And the company is going in a new direction. Much of the shortcomings of the beta have been addressed in the current product, and will be irrelevant in what they are launching with T2.
I am tired of seeing Twain's anti-Twine rhetoric on every article and thread about Twine. If she is so over Twine, why is she still stalking the company and spreading false information every chance she gets?
Out-dated? Hundreds of thousands of users who use Twine and are happy with it?
Sure that's why Twine's 85-95% metrics tumble was commented on as recently as 15 September 2009:
* http://www.semanticsincorporated.com/2009/09/twine-in-freefall.html
No spam? Sure that's why Twain openly criticized RN up about the spam in February 2009 on the Venturebeat thread --- including Nova Spivack being tagged with "porn swinger" no less, RN promised users spam filters and in end-July 2009 Bent Rasmussen shows the spam on Twine in all its glory:
* http://xosfaere.wordpress.com/2009/07/25/twam/
RN and its representatives should also STOP THEIR NONSENSE about how Twain was responsible for destroying the Power Users' community and the reasons behind her exclusion. It was not because of any spamming. It was because she objected to your "We organize that s***" video and all the other ways in which RN disrespected its users.
How is it possible that after her exclusion, RN were unable to persuade the core users to engage with the team on the Lounge? Twain no longer had any influence or involvement with Twine so why did core users, of their own volition, call the Lounge a "NURSERY" and then RN closed that and other user feedback channels too because they couldn't take the constructive feedback.
It is also particularly cowardly from you, Nova and the RN team, to:
(1.) Pose as DSL.
(2.) Pose as various pretend users.
(3.) Disrespect the concerns of users like Greg, Bent and others and dismiss them as "one or two haters". The fact is that MANY users did nothing but try to help the system and the team and RN chose to alienate them.
Check Twine's compete, quantcast, alexa et al. metrics June 2009 to-date.
As for T2, Google Wave is being released shortly. That cuts Twine's chances because people are going to be more interested in Google's offering. In the initial release they're already going to have 100,000+ users and Google Wave's marketing isn't going to make stupid "We organize that s***" videos the way Radar Networks did.
Plus Google Wave's semantic goodies and other apps work and are well-integrated; that's the buzz in the developer community.
By the looks of these T2 previews, RN and its investors should be concerned.
HappyTwiner,
It's very funny that you should associate "Twiner" with "Whiner".
That was one of the reasons Twain argued for the use of "TWINERIAN" (and despite their differences, even DSL agreed with her); to prevent negative word associations with Twine. By comparison, "Twinerian" fosters a sense of open, democratic, collaborative citizenship towards positive and collective aims.
Nova wanted and went with "Twiner" which turned out to be appropriate because it has become a platform about which people WHINE about:
* SLOWNESS
* SPAM
* UI
* USABILITY
* IRRELEVANCE and not fitting users' needs so they don't bother going back.
Of course, RN also decided to close all the open and democratic channels like User Feedback and Power Users; this happened months AFTER Twain's exclusion and was RN's choice so for them to try to whitewash their own mistakes and nonsense is LOL.
It's not so much that RN should have kicked Twain out sooner.
It's that Twain should not have trusted Nova when he pleaded with her:
(1.) to stay on Twine and champion it;
(2.) to help the team and newbies;
(3.) promised to restore the core users' decimated content which was Twain's condition of her second return. A promise Nova did not honor.
Many chances given to Twain? No, many chances given by Twain and other core users out of goodwill towards RN and Twine that was squandered by RN.
There are NO MORE CHANCES FOR TWINE.
Newsflash for Nova: Twain is 100% relieved she's not in the Twine "clubhouse".
Her time isn't being wasted by your pathetic pleas for strategic help, your back-stabbing and then your spin+nonsense and the continuing disappointment that is Twine.
In fact, here's Twain's advice to anyone: sure, use Twine if it suits your needs. The platform is there to RESPECT + SERVICE YOUR NEEDS in a timely and spam-free manner.
You are not there to handhold the RN team or to champion Twine. If that's what RN wants, they should pay you for it.
Also be aware that they took the goodwill of their advocates/champions and destroyed it.
GOOGLE WAVE versus T2
================
Final newsflash to Nova: you kept trying to promote the idea that Twine was somehow a "Google killer" by insisting in every interview that Google isn't into the Semantic Web and that searching with Google returned links like a "haystack".
In May/June 2008, Twain posted onto the Web 3.0: Semantic Web twine a lengthy post entitled 'Who says Google isn't into Semantic technologies' in which she provided important links to substantiate that GOOGLE WAS ALREADY INTERESTED IN AND MOVING TOWARDS THE SEMANTIC SPACE.
Still, you carried on with your "Google isn't into semantics" position. Then you went and deleted Twain's posts.
Lo and behold.....a year on......who proved to be the smart insightful one (Twain) about Google's moves into Semantic space and who proved to be the one who let his own Marketing Director release a ridiculous launch video with the word "s***" in it that misrepresented the values of the community and the platform itself (Nova Spivack).
In case Twine hasn't managed to put this onto your radar system about Google's semantics:
* http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10239294-93.html
* http://www.mis-asia.com/news/articles/google-rolls-out-semantic-search-capabilities
* http://newsbreaks.infotoday.com/nbreader.asp?ArticleID=16713
Yeah, that darn Twain......she sure is "crazy" in her insights and knowhow --- LOL.
Here's another prediction from Twain since she was spot-on about Google's semantics moves: Google Wave is going to do better than T2. There's also going to be other BIG-TIME integrations across Google's properties towards more semantics.
There's genuinely no revenge on Twain's part. The fact is that if Nova had been respectful, honorable and democratic towards users Twain might have considered sharing her contextualization tools with RN and helping them to stay differentiated from Google's semantic propositions.
As it is, this week she met one of Google's heads of search. That's not a revenge motivation; smart people simply choose to go collaborate with wherever there's a stronger business proposition.
Is it yet another ontology authoring tool --- ZZZ? No, that was what she had experience of way back in 1999 when she was in a dotcom that ended up building one of the largest M+A databases in the world.
Her new tool is as spot-on, smart and synergistic as her predictions about Google's moves into semantics.
Sayonara, Nova. Twine's an experience Twain has no desire to repeat.
Hello, smarts and happiness....
Every time Twain posts she just makes more libelous accusations against others, blaming everyone else, never taking any responsibility for her own behavior.
I hope the team at RN is watching this thread. It just proves that they made the right decision kicking her out of Twine.
KM,
RN is obviously watching this thread since they're posting as "KM", "HappyTwiner", "Factuals", "The URLofC" etc.
In fact, Radar Networks is libeling and defaming Twain, Greg Boutin and every other user who helped them.
RN and RN alone is responsible for their own metrics' tumble, for the way they alienate users, for the way the same complaints about UI-usability-spam-slowness etc crop up, release after release (even when Twain's not even on the site!).
Btw, this isn't Twine 2.0 (Twine ZZZ?). This is release Twine #40+.
In case you don't grasp it yet: Twain hasn't been on Twine for over a year. There's no way she could have influenced Twine's tumbling metrics or users' dissatisfaction with the site or what they regard as RN's non-performance over requested features and improvements.
The responsibility for all that is with RN.
Nova kicked Twain out because he didn't like the fact she was posting content like the flags on Google's moves into semantic space because it made him look misinformed.
RN team started to resent the core users so RN decided to close User Feedback --- the very channel where the core users had been trying to help other users get to know how to use Twine and what it was for, as well as providing platform improvement suggestions to RN.
Now the core users don't help with community management or newbies. That's also RN's responsibility, not theirs.
Yes and RN will no doubt write some more falsehoods about how User Feedback was closed because Twain apparently spammed it. Not true because, if that's the case, why did almost 20 of the core users set up a private twine to campaign for her reinstatement?
Nova also tried to re-write history there too by saying it was HIM and not the core users who wanted Twain back on Twine. That's also BS spin on his part since ALL THE CORE USERS KNOW IT WAS THEIR CAMPAIGNING that got her reinstated, the way that everything which is good and that works is attributable to the core users.
Anyway, she's glad Nova kicked her out because then he showed his true colors. He sent emails to insist he regarded Twain as his "friend whilst DSL is not".
Then he proceeded to upset her friends on Twine and kick her out. So much for Nova's "friendship". At least she learnt who her true friends on Twine were.
Funny that there are former Power Users here on R/R/W saying she didn't represent them. Well, of course she didn't represent them!!! THEY'RE THE RN TEAM, who were also in the Power Users' twine.
Funny also that 15+ of the non-RN Power Users went and found her on other social networks and channels to re-establish contact with her after both exclusions. They're smart people. Does anyone seriously think they would stay friends with someone who's "crazy" / "a spammer" / any other libelous falsehood RN spun on the Venturebeat post as well as here?
In any case, Twine doesn't matter. Insiders point out that the Top 100 pages tell very interesting stories about real user engagement and it doesn't look good.
Oh well, the core users did try to advise RN on how to avoid its predicaments, but of course RN decided to close down several open and democratic user comms channels. Again, nothing to do with Twain since she was no longer on the platform by then.
But they'll probably invent some yarn about how she spammed those too.
Twine 2.0 --- ZZZ.
Google Wave......"Bye-Bye, Twine and Nova's nonsense".
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_UyVmITiYQ
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZe095CEwTM
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr0xXTmnTdE
By the way, RN should seriously stop libeling and defaming Twain.
In any libel case, Twain is the one with all the screenshots which substantiate that contrary to being "crazy" / "a spammer" or any other of RN's falsehoods about her, she did everything she could to facilitate the system for others:
* user guides for newbies;
* opening up the threads to more inclusive participation;
* troubleshooting Twine's issues in brainstorms with other core users;
* fostering a smart, open and fun environment on Twine with other core users; and
* all her strategic advice and support to Nova and the team.
RN really should STOP THEIR NONSENSE because every single time she returns to defend herself against their s*** (they are, after all, the ones who first introduced the word to the community with their "We Organize that Shit!" video), she sets the record straight from all their spin and......
They just make themselves look worse. They show that they do libel and defame people who were nothing but champions and advocates for them and they're clearly doing something wrong if users keep voicing the same concerns, over and over and over again.
This is why Twine 2.0 may be Twine ZZZ.
RN and its representatives would be better advised to keep their eyes on the ball rather than pose as various Twiners here to libel and defame Twain.
In case they hadn't noticed, Google just cut their core uniques artery. Twine's metrics tumbles indicate that Twine is somewhere in Intensive Care. Plus in the same week Google Wave's about to hit the semantic collaboration shores.....
Time to stop defaming and libeling users like Greg Boutin and others like Twain who tried to offer strategic advice, methinks.
Time to steer hard starboard before Google Wave hits.
* http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/software/productivity/0,1000001108,39762127,00.htm
* http://blogs.zdnet.com/Hinchcliffe/?p=400&tag=rbxccnbzd1
Funny how Twain thinks that EVERYONE and ANYONE who disagrees with her or is critical of her behavior is an imposter!
Sure Twain, EVERYONE in the world is an imposter, except you. HAHAHA.
As the Church Lady used to say, "How conveeeeeeeeeeenient....."
As for Google Wave -- there is nothing semantic about Wave. And even if there was, it's not at all competitive with where Nova's T2 preview indicated the company is going with Twine.
Twain, you are making extremely libelous and irresponsible accusations that you have absolutely no evidence for. How you could possibly have ever been a banker if you are so sloppy with your facts and statements?
Oh wait... that's right. You're a "former banker." Maybe that explains it.
Twine 2.0 is Twine ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
There is nothing semantic about Wave? Oh wait, that must be your sloppiness and lack of attention to detail at play.
Let's enlighten you: it has a SEMANTIC NLP-based spell-checker. It's open source. It allows semantic applications to be built around it.
Developers invited in are already playing in the sandbox exposing Wave's APIs and internal structures semantically. They're also developing semantic interfaces and semiotics.
Oh, but of course......you may not belong to Google Wave's developer's program so you're probably not aware of what's cooking "in the clubhouse".
You know KM, you and Nova would get on (if you're not already part of RN team). He kept insisting that Google's not into semantics, only statistics, and you insist "there is nothing semantic about Wave".
Maybe if you weren't so sloppy and actually read / watched the content in the links properly...........
*********
Hmmn, "former banker". Well, Twain was co-responsible for a US$ few billion tech portfolio, wrote the investment policies and was fast-track promoted into CEO-Chairman's Office by her mid-20s AND was a designated revenue generator.
See that Perot Systems? Oh! That was in the portfolio.
She was AGAINST over-exposure to the US Mortgage Market and FOR China and other BRICS sovereign investments so called the credit crunch spot-on, actually.
Hmmn and then she left big bank to join a corpfin start-up as Person #4. It now employs 150+ financiers globally.
Yeah, how inconveeeeeeeeenient for RN and you that she knows about tech strategy and all that other stuff.
Anyway, Twain won't be wasting anymore time contextualizing it for RN or anyone else.
Google's going semantic. If anyone thinks otherwise they can carry on with their flints whilst Google cuts apart the competition with their lasers.
LOL!