Iceberg on Demand
is declaring war on software, according to Co-Founder and head of product
development Wayne Byrne. Iceberg is a private beta startup that
provides a Web based platform for building, sharing and selling powerful
business applications, without the need to do coding. A
user at Iceberg can create applications using simple DIY Web tools. Virtually any process can be emulated,
utilized, created or cloned using Iceberg's simple user interface. This innovative approach to development
does not render code or software useless, but simply unnecessary for the Iceberg
user.
Iceberg is similar to DIY applications like Coghead, but as the name implies, there is much more beneath the surface. Coghead is really more like a widget maker, while Iceberg is a true enterprise level DIY platform. Salesforce's AppExchange is probably Iceberg's closest competition, but it is not agnostic to software or code and it can be quite expensive. BungeeLabs (profiled in April by Read/WriteWeb) also has similarities to Iceberg, but it is more for programmers - using solutions, projects and classes. Iceberg uses business objects without any coding.
Iceberg intends to release free, single hosted and per-user versions. Some of its features:
My simple personal home at Iceberg
Iceberg uses a DHTML interface to create Web or network based applications - it currently supports both Fx and IE. Flash based workflow generation and point-and-click tools help users create modules for deep reporting, unlimited calendars, graphing, quick start pages, full function email and file management to list a few.
Iceberg’s enterprise friendly features include: key object tracking, advanced calendar functionality, scheduled processes and many more. Essentially, it has all the function without the coding or support requirements of other platforms. Wayne Byrne claimed that "there is really no longer a need to create software or code to utilize what already exists, we have re-invented the wheel several times over."
The power of Iceberg is in the creation and integration of applications. Services like WebEx Office and Coghead are useful (and even prettier), but at the end of the day they are relatively limited in scope.
Iceberg utilizes Web service API‚Äôs to automatically create, update and delete services generated for user applications. These ‚Äúcall‚Ä? events essentially create ‚Äúhybrid‚Ä? processes tailored to user preferences. The best way to illustrate this is with an example using Google Adwords. In the following sequence a site administrator/owner needs to optimize their Adwords account/bid process.
User creates a business object for estimating/tracking
Adwords
Essentially what we are doing with Iceberg is communicating with a user's Adwords account via a call event and then setting up parameters (bid criteria) for firing points. The end result can be as simple as a notification or as complex as carrying out automated bidding events. A user can literally have their Iceberg handle Adwords or other accounts for them.
Here we define rule decisions for our Adwords interface
The simple result below illustrates how a user can effectively call Google Adwords, get minute by minute CPC data, establish process variables, notifications and ultimately "teach" Iceberg to optimize Adwords' cost and peak effectiveness. It does not take much imagination to visualize Iceberg interfacing with any API and integrating those processes with a user's applications.
Process development UI showing toolbox and an example of
Adwords process loop
Iceberg is not yet as refined as some business applications, but it is only in private beta testing. However, the platform can essentially do any function its competitors can without using code or software.
The big surprise under the surface is that Iceberg can do much more than create business applications. I mentioned Twitter to Wayne and he told me that someone could essentially "clone" Twitter with Iceberg. Right now the interface is not overly simple to use for the novice, but Wayne assured me that more discoverability is on the way.
This service is taking a big step in allowing users the capability to imagine and create very advanced applications and processes. In a nutshell, by the time a programmer maps out and plans a development, it could already be created and functional with Iceberg. This is potentially a powerful service for business and personal applications.
Listed below are links to blogs that reference this entry: Software Runs Into Iceberg.
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Reading about Iceberg, a new development platform without programming that appears to be very powerful and has a free version - it's still in Beta and hasn't launched yet.I'm wondering how Iceberg would be as a development platform to ... Read More
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Enterprise platform vs widget maker and no coding? I think that would make the majority happy.
Posted by: digitalnomad | July 30, 2007 6:32 PMThis is really interesting and I look forward to trying it out. To me it seems like a logical addition to the current web apps we're seeing all over the place - sort of an online answer to FileMaker.
If this really takes off, I think it would be the biggest threat to the countless online "xyz management" apps that are out there. You could build a CRM tool or task-management app that's tailored specifically to your needs without having to worry about the code.
Posted by: George Mandis | July 30, 2007 7:41 PMPhil, thanks for the mention of Coghead. We should arrange a briefing with you. I think you'll find that Coghead is *way* more than a widget maker. While its true that you can turn parts of your Coghead apps into widgets (Coglets) that you can drop on any web page, Coghead is a full featured web app platform. The strength of our platform is the reason why everyone tries to compare themselves to Coghead. And, best of all, Coghead is here today, has thousands of users and the backing of big names like SAP (a company that knows a bit about the Enterprise).
Posted by: Paul McNamara | July 30, 2007 9:02 PMThanks guys, Iceberg has great potential. I enjoyed working with the developers and was able to do some very cool things with it.
Paul, I like your innovation and was not trying to minimize it. In fact I think I was one of the first to give it its due out of the Web 2.0 Expo back in April. Here is what I said back then. "Beyond the long list of "starter applications" CogHead is infinitely flexible in the hands of the tech savvy business person."
It is unfortunate that we have to make comparisons at all in my opinion, but readers want something to index ideas and innovations by. Iceberg is really not all that much like any other application I ever tested, but there are similarities. Best - Phil
Posted by: Phil Butler | July 30, 2007 9:25 PMGreat FUD. Reality would be - Son: Umm, How do I make it bold, there is no way to do it mommy ! Mom: Son, forget the damn thing and use Microsoft Word or Google docs or something.
Who is going to write code to do all the underlying stuff ? Is this another lame attempt at "cornering" the software development market ?
I can see business folks screwing around with this - but when did they start writing software anyways ?
Iceberg indeed. There is a lot more hidden than you see (and thought you paid for). The hidden part would be extra though.
Posted by: Blogmaniac | July 30, 2007 11:23 PMIf these companies are looking to crack into enterprise type markets, they should look at providing software one can install on their own servers, not a hosted solution.
I can't imagine too many large companies buying into something like this without being able to control their own data. Imagine a few years worth of data on one of these sites one day disappears because the company offering the solution went belly up.
In my opinion, the company that comes along offering the same great tools, such as iceberg or coghead, AND allows you to host the software on your own servers will be the king.
Posted by: Joe Schmidt | July 30, 2007 11:40 PMIceberg looks neat, but I don't think any platform that focuses on 'lack of coding' will be succesful in the long term. There is a tradeoff between application customizability and the complexity of the application creator interface, so eventually the interface becomes too complex, which defeats the original purpose. This startup is quite similar to a project I've been working on, minus the "without the coding" part: http://scaffold.jupiterit.com
We've put the emphasis on developers with an open source all Javascript MVC architecture called Junction, paired with an online database creation tool and application scaffolds that create a working application immediately for you to get started quickly. And you can sell/share anything you make.
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Posted by: David | July 31, 2007 2:23 AMMost users aren't going to take the time necessary to learn how to fully utilize software like this, coghead, and others. Most users that I deal with don't really know what they want, they just have a rough idea of the general process. It is a good developer's job to smooth and polish what little requirements the users give us and create a solution. I think this software could be used as a great tool for developers that want to create rapid applications without a lot of coding, but you're fooling yourself if you think users are going to really benefit from this.
Posted by: Practical Programmer | July 31, 2007 5:16 AMBut what of the data? Is it secure? And if the company, for whatever reason, goes belly up -- what happens to the users application and the data the application stores, would the user lose everything?
This seems too risky for serious business-level application development.
Posted by: James McDugal | July 31, 2007 6:00 AMThanks for the excellent writeup Phil.
As a headsup for a couple of the comments above Iceberg WILL be available to be hosted and installed on your servers if that is what you need.
Thank You,
Wayne Byrne
Posted by: Wayne Byrne | July 31, 2007 6:42 AMHead of Product Development
IcebergOnDemand.com
I watched the 3-minute movie and looked around the website. Iceberg strikes me as eerily similar to NetSuite, but with a slightly different value proposition (and also without the customers, Oracle-backing, $M's in revenue and pending IPO).
Posted by: Richard Jones | July 31, 2007 10:17 AMAnd I don't buy the 'never write software again' bit one bit. To be a viable application development platform, Iceberg will have to introduce a scripting layer, test environments, etc. Otherwise, they'll be just a glue app that ties together other services and backends that do all the real work. Not a bad gig, but not a real development environment, either.
So basically these guys are starting to do what Pegasystems Inc. (www.pega.com) has been doing for years? Good job in making it publicly available.
Posted by: David Humes | July 31, 2007 10:34 AMGreat comments and insights too. Thanks Wayne for clarifying the hosted/installed aspect (Did I say that up there?).
If the company goes belly up in the "local" variant - I expect the support will disappear as it would with MS or other products. As far as created applications and the nested program it should still work right?
One cool thing about this is that a great business person and Iceberg aficionado could effectively create solutions for companies in the same way programmers do. Sorry, but I like to think of how things will work more than how they won't.
It is important to carry on these discussions because these issues can be discussed and then addressed - that is how great innovation is achieved. What Wayne did not mention is that two people created this after designing solutions for many businesses.
I did not elaborate on the security aspects but I know it is very deep in permissions etc. Maybe Wayne will elaborate on this aspect.
Posted by: Phil Butler | July 31, 2007 11:02 AMThanks for the response Phil and for encouraging discussion.
I appreciate you mentioning that we built this system in conjunction with real businesses because it really is a crucial point. Iceberg was made as a tool to make apps for actual businesses, we added features we needed to satisfy customers. Iceberg isn't meant to remove the quality process that happens when talented app designers meet with business users, thats the KEY to what Iceberg is for. The idea here is that once you have a plan, and know what you want you then skip the months of painful development.
This development and consultancy process also resulted in important features that address many of the points mentioned above by different people.
Security wise Iceberg has very powerful features in both the application and its delivery. App wise any object in the system can be controlled in an infinate combination of ways limiting read/write/delete/browse and even access to certain fields on a role and group basis. On the delivery level we bring enterprise security by hosting with opSource.net in a sas 70 environment and also allowing people to host their own applications on their bunkered servers for max security.
Phil was of course right to mention that the local install option means should a meteor hit our hq or your broadband go down (more likely) Iceberg will continue to run your business with no problems.
I hope this answers your questions Phil and if anyone has any other questions it would be my pleaseure to receive an email from any of your readers. wayne@icebergondemand.com
Kind Regards,
Posted by: Wayne Byrne | July 31, 2007 11:22 AMWayne Byrne
Head of Product Development
IcebergOnDemand.com
This is interesting...Let's see how it goes.
Posted by: Jitendra | August 1, 2007 5:17 PMIceberg sounds really exciting! I would love to try it out.
Posted by: Gerri | August 1, 2007 6:21 PMI don't think I am going to say anything that anyone else here hasn't, but this is coming from a less-technical person with web dev experience.
If this works than this could be huge. That is easy to understand. Let's hope it does.
On the other hand I have a lot of reservations. It makes me think of Frontpage. Frontpage is billed as a program where you can make websites without knowing anything about web design (like this company says you can make programs without knowing how to program).
You can, but the websites suck. And if anything goes wrong you can't even go into the code to fix it because the code is so freakin' complex that it is much more difficult to understand (in comparison to other web dev programs).
Balance this with Dreamweaver. Made for programmers with lots of similar types of tools, but with the understanding that you need to know how to at least edit code. A system like this seems much more effective to me. You need to know more to use it, but the potential is 10X greater.
So is this a correct comparison. Iceberg is like FrontPage for Enterprise Apps?
On one level it is, you take existing functionality and "magically" it turns into a program. Like this it is more like Frontpage. At the same time it sounds like you have existing programs that are more robust, and then it is more like easily customizable components with a handy tool for integration. In this way it is more like a suite of web services.
Either way this is very interesting. By reading the other responses apparently many other companies are trying to move in this direction, and I have no way to compare them as my knowledge is limited. It will be great to see how this plays out over time.
I will definitely tell our CTO about this. Maybe this is a way to actually create programs without having to do programming. With his background he knows what needs to be done, but can't do it all himself (no time, limited resources). I am guessing this is the purpose of the company.
I have one final question though. Is this scalable? Will it have problems scaling because it is a pieced together jumble of programs? Or is this actually more like object oriented programming where pieces go together and work better because they have been vetted and tested by countless other companies.
Interesting Company.
Posted by: Tim McCormack | August 4, 2007 10:15 AMnice ideas - will def try it out - can see usability for SME's but doubt medium to large corporates who have numerous in-house systems and are heavy on complex business logic will take this up just yet
Posted by: samd | August 4, 2007 10:52 AMHi Tim,
Thanks for the very insightful comments.
The frontpage metaphor is very interesting and to our mind what has happened with "no code" apps which are essentially just code generators. The idea of Iceberg is to reduce duplicated code while code generators did the opposite.
To go with the web development analogy Iceberg is more like a blogging or CMS application (wordpress/drupal for example). These are applications that come with many modules which you can plugin to build very complex websites however the development is all layout and no coding.
Scalability wise Iceberg is designed with that specifically in mind, both the online versions and the local install options are able to scale up and out depending on a companies needs.
If you would like to talk a little further about Iceberg please contact me on wayne@icebergondemand.com and perhaps we can arrange demo.
Also if anyone else has any direct questions I would love to hear from them at the same address above.
Kind Regards,
Wayne Byrne
Posted by: Wayne Byrne | August 6, 2007 4:57 AMHead of Product Development
IcebergOnDemand.com