"I think [fixed prices] will disappear online, simply because it is possible - cheap and easy - to vary prices online." That was MIT Media Lab's Patti Maes in 1999, at a time when eBay's business was booming and auctions were seen as the future of ecommerce. Flash forward 9 years, and BusinessWeek is today calling online auctions a dying breed, Nick Carr is wondering if auctions were a fad. Indeed, the fixed price ("Buy it Now" only) format is beginning to dominate eBay, and the company has taken recent steps push fixed price even harder. But the death knell of the online auction format is not eBay's biggest problem -- no, that would be the small exodus of sellers from the site.
eBay's business is still booming -- the company reported net revenue of $2.19 billion in the first quarter of this year, up 24% over the same period last year (that includes revenue from Skype, PayPal, and other eBay shopping businesses) -- but there are signs that trouble may loom in the core business. Fixed price BIN-only listings now account for 42% of the gross merchandise volume on the site, and the fixed price format has been growing at a much faster rate than auctions over the past 6 years.
In and of itself, that's not a huge deal. eBay is making moves to put more emphasis on the BIN-only format to guard against the slipping popularity of web auctions -- if auctions do turn out to have been just a fad, eBay is making preparations to reinvent itself as a traditional fixed price marketplace in the vein of Amazon. What should be of greater worry for eBay, though, is the number of sellers dissatisfied with moves the company has made over the past few months -- many made in part to push BIN pricing. Without sellers it doesn't matter which is the dominant pricing format.
eBay would argue that the number of active users has actually increased year-over-year by about a million. eBay's measurement of "active users," though, includes any user that has "bid on, bought, or listed an item in the previous 12-month period." So recent changes won't catch up to that measurement for awhile.
We reported in February about a seller revolt at eBay that caused eBay listings to dip as many as 13%. It's impossible to tell if the boycott by sellers was the actual cause of any drop in total listings, but the larger point is that sellers felt the need to organize a boycott at all. That boycott was specifically about two policy changes at eBay that increased back end fees on auctions (which favors the BIN-only pricing) and changes to the feedback system that now prohibits sellers from leaving negative feedback for buyers.
But those aren't the only changes eBay has made recently that have put the company at odds with some of its most prolific sellers. One of the biggest was the switch to "Best Match" as the default search results view in a large number of categories on the site earlier this year. Many sellers railed against the switch, with some saying that the search algorithm had caused their sell through rates to fall dramatically. eBay's site wide sell through rates appear to actually be at the lowest point in many years.
That could be due to the company's recent partnership with Buy.com, who has flooded the site with fixed price listings (around 500,000 at any one time), with an abysmal sell through rate hovering around 5%. The Buy.com deal is indicative of eBay's slow transition away from its core auction format toward a more Amazon-like marketplace. But it comes at the expense of sellers in the categories in which Buy.com sells, many of whom have seen their sell through rates and visibility hurt by the flood of Buy.com listings.
At an eBay presentation to shareholders in January, the company showed off a prototype of a new split screen listings page that splits BIN-only listings off from auction listings and pushes buyers toward accepting a BIN (pictured above). Though only an idea that eBay is considering, the potential design change has some sellers worried.
"The sellers are leaving, with each new change you can see more posts on the eBay message boards where they are posting they are done, closed their eBay stores, ended their listings and are off," eBay seller nancybusinraleigh, who has been selling on the site for 10 years, told me. "And since eBay is doing the 'death by a thousand cuts' approach, this will continue." Nancy herself has stopped selling on eBay in favor of her own storefront.
Competing with Amazon on fixed price sales may be difficult for eBay. Amazon's sales increased 37% to $4.13 billion in the first quarter, eBay's net revenue from its "Marketplaces" (primarily eBay and Half.com) rose 14% to $1.26 billion. And if sellers are really leaving the site, then there is a potential that eBay could see a drop in volume. Fewer seller options, no product reviews, and no "Amazon option" that offers free shipping could spell trouble for eBay when attempting to compete seriously in the fixed price market. Major deals with large retailers like Buy.com notwithstanding, alienating the small sellers and auctioneers who helped build the site is probably not a smart move for eBay.
eBay's real future may lie with PayPal, though. PayPal accounted for just $559.7 million of eBay's total revenue last quarter (approximately a quarter), but year-over-year revenue has increased 34% -- the best year-over-year growth rate of any division at the company except Skype (which makes up just a tiny fraction of the overall business).
TrackBack URL for this entry: http://www.readwriteweb.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-tb.cgi/4119
Comments
Subscribe to comments for this post OR Subscribe to comments for all Read/WriteWeb posts
My personal opinion is that eBay,or any company for that matter, should pay attention to its clients; specially in the case of eBay which the smaller guys made it happen. Bringing in big partners that compete with its core is a bad idea. And alienating its core is a worse idea still.
Posted by: Fabian Schonholz | June 3, 2008 9:50 PM
5 star article, in my book.
You covered just about all the bad points. Need more emphasis on the fact that sellers can no longer rate BAD buyers, to warn others of their dirty deeds. By May 19, 2009, ALL buyers, good AND bad, will have 100% feedback, since they can no longer get negatives or neutrals, from sellers. Where is the equality here?
And to go in and retroactivley count previous neutrals (which buyers left KNOWING that it would NOT affect the sellers feedback) as Negatives, is absurd.
Ebay has mase such a BIG mistake.
Posted by: Disgruntled Ebay Powerseller | June 3, 2008 10:42 PM
If you want to see the revolt against ebay, that is going on, you can go here to join in or just see what ALL the sellers are talking: http://forums.ebay.com/db2/forum.jspa?forumID=113
Posted by: Disgruntled Ebay Powerseller | June 3, 2008 10:45 PM
Ebay is a ship that is just starting to sink due to internal rot...stupidity and greed on the part of Ebay's Ceo and top management. It's not just the fee increases and feedback changes....I think it's basically the condescending attitude that Ebay top management has shown towards sellers. Sellers have no say in anything and are treated like so many barking seals that need to be trained to jump through an ever increasing # of hoops to get their rewards (a stupid 15% discount on already jacked up final value fees). To me, Ebay is just another 4 letter word. I bet Donahue probally dresses up in a Napoleon or King George outfit behind closed doors.
Posted by: Ebay is a Sinking Ship | June 3, 2008 11:50 PM
If eBay management keeps the new one-way feedback system all sellers will be taken advantage of, large and small, by dishonest or demanding buyers. A new transaction rating system, "TRS", is in order for the security of all online commerce. A "trust score" where all buyers and sellers develop a permanent lifelong history, and all appropriate categories of member contention are rated at a single web portal, are tallied and compared to all other similar products and members. Ebay would be the ideal place to begin this process as it is a unique and vital venue for our heritage, economy and for the environment.
JW
Posted by: J W | June 3, 2008 11:52 PM
The other Real Trouble at eBay & PayPal is that their Fees end up taking Too Much out of the sellers Total Profits.
To learn how much eBay + PayPal are Realistically taking out of Sellers profit, please check out this new eBay Profit Calculator here:
eBay & PayPal & Alts PROFIT CALCULATOR
If used over time it can also help eBay Sellers learn how to increase their profitability (by showing which items make more profit and which ones make too little).
If you like it, let others know. :)
Posted by: Near Earth | June 4, 2008 12:36 AM
This is one of the better reasoned and most accurate articles I have read on eBay in a long long time. Congratulations.
Please read my response on my blog at www.redinkdiary.blogspot.com
Posted by: Henrietta | June 4, 2008 1:30 AM
Nice article. It's great to get an analysis of what a player as big as eBay is doing to the market and, really, how it's digging it's own grave.
Personally, I feel eBay should go back to it's roots and strenghten both their seller and buyer communities. Alliances with buy.com might seem great in the short term, but competiting with Amazon in the fixed price market isn't what made eBay what it is today.
Time to focus back on your core strengths: the community that drives you!
Posted by: MBA Geek | June 4, 2008 5:35 AM
The very simple long and short of ebay is...sellers are leaving because they are not making money. Ebay like many larger companies have entered the mature phase of their life cycle. Like governments and other big monopolies, Ebay has created a multiple taxation system where fees are charged at many different waypoints along the gateway but to the seller it is all one price that adds up to no profitability. Combine the huge fees with a confrontational attitude toward small sellers and small and medium size business' and the model looks more like an authoritarian oligarchy than a commerce model. Ebay devotes most of its policy these days to stopping sellers from getting around the rules, and sellers struggle to achieve profitability. All the while ebay caters to the worst quality, highest volume sellers that flood the site with crap. Collectibles were the "porn" that built the site, and that is what ebay targets for elimination!
Posted by: David Himel | June 4, 2008 5:42 AM
This is the only article that covers the story from the inside seller view, please keep them coming.
Another big issue with sellers is the DSR ratings (detail seller ratings), eBay has attached these ratings to seller performance and has instituted punishments towards sellers for low ratings, however eBay has deceptively skewed the ratings telling buyers that a 4 is good yet require sellers to maintain a minimum of a 4.5 or sanctions and punishments are enforced on sellers some even leading to suspension, many have all ready been suspended because of these ratings.
To me the big issues are with feedback and DSR's.
I have been a seller and buyer since 1998 and have quit selling and buying because of these new changes.
Posted by: Misty | June 4, 2008 6:06 AM
I've found myself drifting away from Ebay recently for reason such as this.
Posted by: Dean Saliba | June 4, 2008 6:09 AM
I'm surprised that Google or Amazon hasn't tried to get in on the online auction pie.
Posted by: Eric J. Gruber | June 4, 2008 6:39 AM
I have to say that I think the exodus of sellers is not a real problem for eBay at all.
Frankly, it's buyers that need to be kept happy and I, for one, like BIN and find auctions too time consuming. To top it off, my chance of winning an auction at a reasonable price is low, for items in demand, because of bots and snipe programs. I have a job and can't sit around monitoring eBay in the hope that I might save five bucks.
If sellers can actually make it running their own storefront, then more power to them. Maybe I'll even be able to find them and patronize their businesses. My guess is however, that they will end up coming back to eBay (or perhaps moving to Amazon) to regain the visibility such powerhouse sites bring.
In the end, it's simply not a sellers' market.
Posted by: Larry Eiss | June 4, 2008 6:56 AM
OK, I've read the other comments and just have to add another point.
What, precisely, does a "bad buyer" look like? I fail to see why sellers need to rate buyers. If I win an auction or buy a BIN item, the seller gets my money in their account before I ever see the product.
There is no parallel for this idea of rating buyers in the world beyond eBay either. Publications like Consumer Reports rate suppliers, not consumers, for example.
The very concept of rating a buyer is specious in my view. Nothing more than a distraction from the real point.
If sellers aren't making a profit on eBay they need to raise their prices or find another sales channel where they can make money. This is business 101, and every company in the world faces the same situation every day.
Posted by: Larry Eiss | June 4, 2008 7:03 AM
Following are many of the reasons Ebay sellers are leaving .
I sold on ebay for 10 years and now they tell me I am a bad seller !!! I am close to being kicked off ebay for using "like new " in an auction listing years ago - only to find out that ebay considers this as spamming ?? the item was like new BTY !
Ebay treats its sellers as if they are prostitutes and Ebay is our PIMP . I am tired of getting slapped around and told what to do - the new dashboard is an insult to the sellers and is a slap in the face -- this is why people are leaving --what ebay is doing is an abusive attack on the people who helped build it . We were ebays customers and now ebay treats us as if we are scum!
GRIEVANCES, MISSION AND TERMS STATEMENT
GRIEVANCES
1. Feedback Changes
A. Buyers will only be able to receive positive feedback effective May 2008.
B. Feedback older than 12 months will no longer be applied towards your
feedback percentage.
C. Neutral Feedback will now be considered as negative to determine buyer
dissatisfaction rate and seller account restrictions
2. DSR'S (Detailed Seller Ratings)
A. eBay allows buyers to think that a 4.0 (on a scale of 1-5) denotes good
business practices by the seller regarding item as described, communication,
shipping time and shipping and handling charges, while sellers are subjected to
various penalties for that same score.
B. DSR's are rated on a curve. Results of this curve may make even a rating of a 4.8
the median in a given rating category.
C. DSR'S will now be intertwined with "Best Match" search positioning.
D. eBay is unjustly red-flagging "good" sellers as well as "bad" sellers by stating
sellers with a 4.5 rating (On a scale of 1-5) now have a "low" rating, thereby
implying they are in the category of "bad sellers".
E. "Bad" Sellers will be kept because of their monetary value.
3. Minimum 21 Day PayPal Hold For Risky Sellers And Risky Categories
A. Sellers whose total feedback score is not more than 100 will have payments held
for up to 21 days.
B. Risky category sellers will be subjected to a 21 day hold, even well established
sellers.
C. Sellers with 5% or greater negatives in a 30 day period will be subject to the 21
day hold regardless of the circumstances.
4. Unreasonable Fee Increases
A. Promoted to the Ebay community as decreases, only the insertion fees were
decreased. Insertion fees decreased by $.05 with the gallery picture given free
($.35 savings) yet FVF (final value fees) raised by as much as 66%
B. Reserve fees increased from $1.00 to $2.00 and will no longer be refunded if
the item sells.
C. Store FVF's (final value fees) increased to 12% above and beyond monthly and
listing fees.
5. Miscellaneous
A. The universal anonymous bidder policy promotes additional
unsafe buyer practices and has led to buyers losing trust in the system.
B. The majority of Power Sellers will not qualify for newly stated discounts
C. The note "This item is not covered by buyer protection on eBay," which is
placed in two areas of the listings of sellers who do not offer PayPal, causes
harm to the good sellers' reputations and intimidates buyers.
D. eBay sellers are red-flagged on their listing page if their rating is 4.2 and below.
(per the beta test)
E. When sellers are red-flagged, eBay also lists other sellers' items on said sellers'
listings. (per the Beta Test for eBay Express items)
Posted by: Magnus | June 4, 2008 7:06 AM
I stopped buying on E-Bay a long time ago, once they refused to do anything about extraordinary shipping rates and started allowing fixed pricing to dominate. The original attraction to e-bay was the ability to find those great deals and if you ended up in a bidding war with other clients, well that was part of the fun. I can usually get what I want just by going to the host sites now, and bargaining with the site owner.
Too bad, it was fun while it lasted.
Posted by: Mooner | June 4, 2008 7:31 AM
In response to number 14:
I've been selling on ebay for over 10 years and am currently a powerseller.
A "bad" customer can do serious damage to the seller under the new rules.
They (the buyers) have the ability to downgrade the
sellers rating causing an increase in eBay fees, lower
sales and a 21 day "payment hold" contingent upon
the buyer acknowledging receipt of the item.
If a seller has a total of 100 sales, it would take
2 negative or neutral feedback ratings to eliminate
any fee discount available from ebay.
A total of 5 neutrals or negatives would result
in a 21 day payment hold (if paid online).
If you are skeptical that this would happen, please
visit the ebay forums and discussion groups.
Many "bad buyers" are actually sellers with a seperate
buying account that are trying to eliminate their
competition.
Notice that Neutral Feedback is now considered to be NEGATIVE.
I have recieved neutral feedback from foreign customers
because they felt that the item took too long to arrive.
The item was shipped within 24 hours of payment and the delay
was caused by the customs clearance process of their country.
Under these new rules, 2 neutrals caused by a situation
such as this would eliminate any hard-earned auction fee discount.
Posted by: BK | June 4, 2008 7:35 AM
I think the reason why seller feedback is important is because it is a check and balance on the system. Sellers are not "forced" to pay for an item they may win and that negative feedback option was a good way to keep sellers in check and compel them to pay. If Ebay's system immediately collected the money from the bidder then that would negate this but they don't do that.
I know for my ebay store I would get a good number of people wanting to back out because they overbid (I list things in both BIN and Auctions and people consistenly bid higher than the BIN price) and what am I supposed to do? They wouldn't pay for the item and would leave me a negative if I left them negative for being a non-paying bidder. Seller should have the ability to at least charge the bidder the fees Ebay charged for the unpaid-for auction. These small amounts add up...no wonder why shipping is a rape these days...it is used to build up a 'rip-off fund' from shady buyers. And I can almost hear Ebay smack their lips over the idea of charging a Final Value Fee on shipping, too. It will happen...wait and see.
FYI - Ebay Live auctions are a freaking scam. Never use them.
Posted by: Chiatt Price | June 4, 2008 7:36 AM
The feedback changes have also allowed buyers NOT TO PAY for the items. Ebay allows a total of 15 days for a buyer to pay. That is quite a bit of time.
Posted by: Kathy | June 4, 2008 7:47 AM
@Larry #13: If eBay loses its single-person/small business sellers and transitions to a fixed price site where you seek the best price from corporate partners like Buy.com... well, isn't that what Shopping.com is for?
Posted by: Josh Catone
|
June 4, 2008 8:23 AM
For years I have bought much more than I sell on Ebay. However, I am now looking to other auction sites because of the changes that Ebay is making. Would never have even thought of looking some where else if it hadn't been for the changes. What I think what Ebay may not be thinking about, is that most of the people who sell on Ebay also buy. If we get upset about their selling changes, it's a good bet that we are going to stop or slow down buying there. I have 100% pos. feedback, but I can't help but wonder how long that will last.
Your article was very good. I'll be watching to see if you have any follow up articles!
Posted by: M. Elaine Layton | June 4, 2008 8:32 AM
What is a Bad Buyer? How about an individual that bids on an item and wins. A binding contract under terms outlined in policy and agreed to by the individual prior to the sale. The individual decides not to complete the sale for whatever abscure reason. I have even witnessed an individual on ebays feedback discussion board purposely bid on a sellers auction with the express reason to leave that selling individual negative feedback. That is the hostile marketplace that eBay is becoming and the seller has little or no recourse under current policy. That seller can't even place a positive comment for the bidder stating anything negative such as "Bidder never paid for auction", "Bidders claims are false" etc...
Another interesting thing not mentioned is how eBay is currently "padding" its auction to make it appear that the actual number of items has not decreased in the wake of sellers departing. Buy.com as listings ranging from 400,000 to 700,000 at a given time. Add to that sellers, some who in their listing clearly state that they are an actual employee of ebay have auctions ranging in 20,000 and have dismal percentages and approximately 50 negative comments with a month.
http://toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=frogswamp
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=frogswamp&&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller&sspagename=VIP:feedback:2:us&iid=220224714604
There are bad buyers and bad sellers...whats missing is the level playing field eBay claims.
Posted by: J. Gorman | June 4, 2008 8:36 AM
Thanks for the good article. However can we please get some form of "Email to a friend" functionality on the site.
Posted by: Wiggler | June 4, 2008 8:49 AM
You can email the article I found by going back to the top of the article and clicking on a button titled Dig It. From there you can share.
Posted by: J. Gorman | June 4, 2008 9:09 AM
Refreshing to read something that has actually been researched and not gotten from the ebay feed machine.
Josh, please believe me when I tell you, you have only scratched the surface of this all. When these changes were announced I sat back and thought about them. My conclusion then has been confirmed of late. "All roads lead to paypal" my friend. That is the path to walk if you really want the full story. JD has mentioned a few times that paypal is where they will focus their growth. To grow anything you have to feed it. ebay is the food dish.
Posted by: CEP | June 4, 2008 9:17 AM
Well This is just another way for Ebay to pad their listings with Buy.com's products. As a fellow boycotter noted if you study Buy.com's listings they hardly sell anything with the thousands upon thousands of listings.
This in turn is hurting the smaller seller because they get lost in the search because of buy's 518840 items.
Just another way for ebay to push out small sellers as well as large ones too.
Posted by: Blondie | June 4, 2008 9:30 AM
GREAT ARTICLE!
Has anyone posted this to the eBay INK BLOG so they can INK SLAP it?
;)
Posted by: I Love eBay So Much It Hurts | June 4, 2008 9:50 AM
Thank you for this very on-target article. Ebay has certainly become an un-seller friendly marketplace, with moves that have made many considering leaving the site altogether.
Ebay has diminished sellers motivation to correct customer purchase issues. Once a negative score is left, it is there for good. If a troubled buyer defaces a big box store by painting negative comments on the door. The store promtly removes it. It's bad for business. Ebay sellers have to live with it. There is no recourse.
The new Best Match default search is leave sellers struggling to be seen, even though we pay the same fees for our listings.
Feedback ratings are also seeing changes. One of the biggest changes was to the way Ebay calculates the overall score of a seller. Neutrals, which Ebay said would never count against a seller score, now do. They now only count in the overall calculation, but they are weighed equally.
Once a company that listened, responded to and celebrated the people that populated their marketplace, is now becoming a company focused only on it's own survival. But can they survive without us?
Posted by: Andy | June 4, 2008 11:11 AM
Thanks for the thoughtful feedback on my comments above.
I can see that eBay has issues that are vastly different from my own experience. The idea of backing out of a bid I won never even crossed my mind. The concept that a competitor would be such a loser as to create a buyer account just to give negative feedback is also stunning to me.
In the end, I'm sure that a more ethical system will be found, or eBay will rightly die.
Posted by: Larry Eiss | June 4, 2008 11:41 AM
I like that it says "confidential" on the slide...
Posted by: Philip James | June 4, 2008 12:08 PM
My own mini investigation on this very troublesome Buy.com issue shows a much lower sell thru rate.
However, I will admit, this is based on real time stats, and, is merely a sampling. But, here are the facts I discovered; and, while the numbers change, as items come up and fall off, the results are the same: SOMETHING stinks in San Jose.
As of a couple days ago, Ebay's category Books, had over 900,000 listings.
Buy.com (Ebay user ID: Buy) had over 500,000 active listings. Of those half million plus listings, over 420,000 were in books. That translates to about 44% of all listings under books.
I mentioned their sell thru rate was lower than 5% and as of a few minutes ago, I was basing this on the sampling. However, I have more official numbers, and the numbers are astonishing!
These numbers were taken from Terapeak and are based on a 90 day history.
The most current info I have:
Seller: Buy
Total Items Listed: 2,708,987
Total sales: $3,924,907
Successful listings: 64,638
Total Items Offered: 249,431,285
Sell through rate: 2.39%
Average Sale: $44.43
MINIMUM listing fee would be: $270,898.70 (based on the minimum 10 cent listing fee, AND does not include dutchj auctions).
Minimum fee, including dutch auctions: $24,943,128.5
Does not include Final Value Fees.
So, the question here is, "What's going on ebay?". We deserve to know. Your investors deserve to know.
Tim
http://forums.delphiforums.com/boycottebay/start
http://myspace.com/boycottebay
Posted by: LegendsOfBatman | June 4, 2008 12:57 PM
The Ebay core business has lost its touch with its customers. Your article demonstrates it in spades. If Ebay wants to be like Amazon then they should spin the buy it now business into another division and just keep harvesting the auction business. Why kill a cow that still produces. I believe that the unique auction style Ebay HAD is a great money maker (It did build Ebay didn't it?) So this is another case of lack of understanding by management. There is no glory being in the used , auction business but there sure is a lot of money to be made.
Posted by: Eli | June 4, 2008 1:12 PM
Ebay will continue to lose business... What they failed to realize, is that most of the sellers that left the site (including me) were avid buyers too... The numbers of vacater's grows daily... Read the seller boards on there... It's a shame!!
I will never make a purchase on that site again...
And paypal... Once they've taken money out of your account due to poor security on the site, they will lose also... I will no longer use that part of their company either...
With the padded listings they've created, they've tried to cover up the drop in listings, but in the long run, you can't hide a loss...
I see the end of the ebay era forever... They lost site of whose work and money supported this company from the beginning...
Greed... In a nutshell...
Posted by: Debi | June 4, 2008 5:31 PM
"eBay's real future may lie with PayPal";
which accounts for this attempt in Australia.
http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/823668/fromItemId/776499/display/submission
Through an ACCC error the final, damning submission was detected as coming from Google.
Posted by: ardonau | June 4, 2008 5:41 PM
ebay is going to be a thing of the past in Australia.
They dont seem to realise that we have standards and ebay does not meet those standards anymore.
I spend around $8000 a year on ebay and from last month I have shifted all my buying over to bang4bucks im so sick of these big companies walking all over us.
My regular sellers are willing to list products where I want to purchase from so I dont have to use paypal .
Other auction site in Australia are going to be the same as ebay now that they are public companies, they only one that isnt is bang4bucks and that where I will be spending
Posted by: Melanie | June 4, 2008 6:57 PM
Josh, I'm so glad to finally see an honest assessment of what is really happening to the 'average' sellers on eBay.
Keep researching, there's a lot more !!
Larry (post 14) "what precisely does a bad buyer look like ?"
Check out the "Sopranos Meets eBay in Feedback Extortion Scheme" on Auctionbytes. The post by "dakota" on
Sun June 1 2008 01:41:24 has a copy of the email that the seller received.
You won't find it on eBay, the seller that posted it on 'Seller Central' did NOT self report the thread, it mysteriously disappeared.
Lots of threads have disappeared lately.
http://blog.auctionbytes.com/cgi-bin/blog/blog.pl?/comments/2008/6/1212292804.html#comments
Posted by: Mrs.R | June 4, 2008 7:15 PM
I have to dissagree that auctions are a dying breed. I still
use auctions exclusively and do just fine with them. I dont sell much, but what I list does sell consistantly.
Ebay has overcomplicated the process and taken control of peoples businesses which has killed inovation and enthusiam.
The fees are way too high and the attempt to force the use
of Pay Pal is not something buyers or sellers are likely
to tolarate.
Remember, this is a massive group of entrepeneurs, not Ebay employees that make this site work like it does, not the kind of people to be told how to run
thier business. Not the kind of people to be treated like uncooperative children.
Between Ebay and Pay Pal fees sellers have had to increase starting prices, buyers dont get the bargains because of this too, it cant be helped.
Ebay was begun as a free and open trade site, management interfearence in that is killing the business.
I am not saying they should not address fraud, they should,
but they havent and that is a big problem too.
The very best thing Ebay could do for itself and all its sellers is listen to them! Put things back to what they were in the early years when everyone, buyers and sellers had fun with it. People having fun buy!
We need a time machine in reverse bad here.
Fixed price sites are a dime a dozen online, there was only one Ebay. Going to a fixed price mall will put the final nails in the coffin for Ebay.
Posted by: Marilyn | June 4, 2008 7:42 PM
ebay did fail to realize that most small sellers were also buyers. As a buyer I spent over $30,000.00 from 2005 -2008. For one individual that is a lot. I do not buy on ebay anymore and will not sell again either. ebay is no longer compatible with my selling style. In my opinion ebay has reduced itself from a unique, wonderful site to a common online conglomerate slumming it's way around the e-commerce universe, (and ebay will not be able to compete).
Very stupid management and too many cooks~
Posted by: KD | June 4, 2008 7:46 PM
I'm a 10 year small seller who has consistantly kept 50+ auctions running until the advent of John Donahoe and his "disruptive innovation." I stopped listing with a ten year old 100 percent feedback record and DSR's of 5,5,5 and 4.9. With ebay's "best match" I've heard it rightly called "bowel movement" I am listed as "standard" - my reputation is not good enough for elevated because I'm not a large volume seller. That left me so far in the back of that bus that I ended up with a few hits every day and almost no bids! Today, I am listing on smaller sites and on my own website. I'm not making as many sales as I USED to make on ebay...but what I do make is mostly MINE.....and I have my self respect back again.
An ebay rep recently told me that Ebay brings buyers and sellers together and the sellers know it - I felt that was quite a pompous attitude because that was true years ago but hasn't been true lately and not at all true since they turned the site into turmoil and drove a wedge between buyers and sellers just this year. My hope for John Donahoe and his crew....a good personal dose of "disruptive innovation" to all their positions!
One last opinion - Ebay will NEVER be Amazon for one good reason....they have NO customer service and never will - they don't want to spend the money on customer service manpower. Without it...they will simply be a cheesy clone of what Amazon is and soon they'll be doomed to utter failure.
Posted by: Patricia013 | June 4, 2008 8:03 PM
To Marilyn,
It's too late. The plans were laid three years ago and constant changes are planned for the next three years. The new CEO, Donohoe, saw ebay as a triple disruptive innovation (his term (learned from some kind of ego professor) for ebay, PayPal and Skype) and he thinks he has to disrupt the businesses before someone else innovatively disrupts ebay, PayPal and Skype before he does.
Paranoid~
He never understood ebay, unfortunately. I think it's fair to blame Meg Whitman, with whom he worked with at another company before both of them went to ebay. They both are money animals and all the greed is killing the best of ebay.
I have been reading as much as possible about the downfall of ebay since I noticed something was really wrong, when as a buyer all of a sudden my bidder user ID was masked. I went crazy when that happened and knew it was the end.
Oh well, it's over and no one can tell this Donohoe guy he's ruining a very good thing. I think he thinks he's going to be the savior of ebay. Time will tell and I doubt it very much (that Donohoe will save ebay, since ebay was working very well the way it was before he touched it with his greedy hand).
He is immoral and unethical in the way he ruined business for thousands of small business persons by forcing changes he knew would force small sellers to want to leave the ebay site. He's tricky, because he didn't want it to appear that way, but anyone that studies the situation at all will easily see what this man did to so many people.
Posted by: KD | June 4, 2008 8:16 PM
"Competing with Amazon on fixed price sales may be difficult for eBay."
There's the mistake right there!
Why join into a market that there is plenty of?
If they had stuck to what they do best, not raised fees so much and not went rule crazy, they would probably still be doing quite well.
All they did with the fixed prices is attract the kind of people that like that probably shop at the mall and other fixed price sites. They didn't really change that many people who like auctions, they just chased that crowd away.
The fixed priced items are usually over priced or their shipping is over priced, most often end with out bids and/or keep cycling through. I don't know how some of those sellers do it, they are just donating fees to Ebay. The pages are packed with them, so a regular auction loving person just get annoyed.
I've been selling on Ebay for 8 years. I used to love to selling small parts to people that used them because they were not made any more. When they made it non-cost effective to put small ticket items on for many sellers, then those buyers could no longer find unusual parts. Those buyers also buy other things too, but when Ebay takes away what it is known for, then why should those customers come around?
Their greed and size has made them flustered, focus has been lost, and human kindness is not even a part of them any longer.
My hubby has sold on there for 12 years. With recent changes, his competitors have reported a few of his actions as bad. But they were not bad, but Ebay doesn't care and leaves the alerts on his "Dashboard". The next one he will get kicked off. Not many of the sellers realize that after about 5 alerts you are gone!
Between us 2 we have earned Ebay tens of thousands. Do they care? Nope!
They fixed what was not broke, flubbed things up more than they want to say and now they are running scared. The new guy is a "stream liner", which people are in denial of. Stream liners mess with stuff and get a company ready to put up for sale. If he gets the site into such sad disarray that it can be sold cheap, it could get better after that or be gone entirely.
The other parts of Ebay which they have added no longer needs the auction part.
Posted by: Ro | June 4, 2008 10:25 PM
Regardless of what eBay "was", it isn't now and will never be again. Unfortunately, all the boycotts, written comments and rants will not change the "vision" of management.
Therefore, I think eBayers will simply have to make a decision....remain or not.
For those choosing the "not" option (I am one), the search begins for a new venue.
My choice is NeoLoch, the Friendly Auction Site (www.neoloch.com).
On the auction side, listings, photos, gallery and stores are FREE with a very small FVF. Can't lose on this one!
On the Forums side, the community is incredibly helpful and friendly. Need help, just ask.
With listings, etc, being free, I think it's a no-brainer...you have nothing to lose and you just might find a comfortable new "home".
Posted by: Honeygetridofit | June 5, 2008 3:31 AM
I agree that Ebay isn't and won't ever again be what it started out to be. It was fun and prosperous.
That is so gone. Ebay is on a downward spiral that it has been for some time.
I left selling on ebay September 2007. As of February 2008 I joined www.neoloch.com, Moved all my stock and set up a FREE store too.
I have been selling, meeting many ex-ebayers who are also happy to be selling there. The forums are friendly & helpful, the auction site is easy to use, with free listings, free re-listing up to 9x and as I mentioned a FREE store. No risk. I would encourage anyone looking for a new auction site to come check it out:)
Posted by: Simply Soft Elegance | June 5, 2008 5:32 AM
Thank you so much Josh, you've opened the proverbial can of worms and as you can see by the comments from ebay members (past and present), the saturation point of frustration has been hit. In some cases, exceeded.
The problems at ebay/paypal are numerous and branch like a windshield crack that has been exposed to extreme temperatures. It spiders in every direction.
To expose the behavior of ebay and paypal is to give voice to hundreds of thousands of members who have been the recipient of the total lack of customer service two entities have ever been guilty of.
Worse, it goes beyond just the lack of customer service, but encompasses fraud as well. Yes, fraud.
This story is one any seller on ebay who uses paypal will recognize, over and over and over again:
http://www.kirotv.com:80/consumer/16494930/detail.html
Keep blogging Josh, you've just scraped the surface.
Posted by: Nancy | June 5, 2008 5:50 AM
The removal of negative feedback from seller to buyer was a heavy-handed solution to a serious problem. For years, a bad seller could make it hard for a buyer to let other buyers know of any problems. I've had at least three retaliatory feedbacks left against me by sellers after I had to get refunds from PayPal for unsent merchandise.
Posted by: Ray Cornwall | June 5, 2008 7:35 AM
I do not understand with the massive changes inflicted on eBay why they didn't shut the site down - change it - and reopen it with all the changes made at one time. It would have been much less painful for all involved.
I do not think that auctions are dead. I think there can be a healthy combination of auctions and BIN. Also think people should be given incentives to list more and sell more - not be knocked in the teeth at every turn.
With some of the other's posting, I have picked up my eBay bags and moved to http://neoloch.com.
Please check out the community boards.
Posted by: Sadie's Attic | June 5, 2008 7:58 AM
Very refreshing to see this article. I hope everyone posting here has taken the time to read thru the Discussion Boards at eBay. This started last summer and so many still do not have a clue. Read the Boards...it is all there and eBay has even made it very clear. Fortunately, I read the Boards there in January and by mid- Febuary...I saw the writing on the wall. I left, will not go back to buy or sell. I too found NeoLoch, The Friendly Auction Site. It started with a few and is growing every day. I believe in directing my energy toward a positive direction and neoloch.com is it. A new beginning which will be a household name one day and Sellers/Buyers will have reason to smile once again.
Posted by: dance2nite | June 5, 2008 5:15 PM
The question now is whether eBay has the ability - or even the desire - to come back what used to the site such a fantastic experience. eBay used to actually care about its members, not just the bottom line. Now it seems that the community is a fairly low priority - and this is despite the fact that almost every other popular website at the moment has a very strong community base! eBay is severely bucking the trend here, and not in a good way. The recent litany of errors, as discussed in my latest blog post on Salehoo.com, has angered so many people, that it's going to take a massive turnaround from eBay to win those people back again.
Posted by: Simon Slade | June 5, 2008 5:39 PM
I remember going to Ebay Live in 2004 in New Orleans. It was so exciting and when we went in for the gala dinner on the last evening of Ebay Live, Ebay employees formed two lines and as we all walked into the Convention Center....they applauded us! There were thousands of us at that gala dinner - I hear there were some 700 ebay employees also there - all dressed alike. It was an evening I'll not forget. I felt so proud of ebay and what all of us accomplished by selling there and I truly felt management was proud of us too. There will never be another company like Ebay - and Ebay will never be like that again. :-(
Posted by: Patricia013 | June 5, 2008 10:51 PM
The bottom line, not enough people can now make money selling on Ebay. 2000-2002 were the years to make any money on Ebay.
Posted by: GoFrostfire | June 5, 2008 11:54 PM
1 2 Next