What It's Like To Write For Demand Media: Low Pay But Lots of Freedom
Editor: This is a guest post by Andria Krewson, a freelance journalist who has written for Demand Media. Given our recent focus on Demand Media and so-called content farms, we thought it would be interesting to get the perspective of a Demand Media writer.
I made $37.50 at Demand Studios in November. That money went directly into my Paypal account, on time, with no billing hassles. But it probably took me about six hours of filling out a profile, studying a style guide and learning how to navigate the system. So my hourly pay was about $6, for a writer new to the system.
Andria Krewson is a freelance journalist and consultant in Charlotte, N.C. She has worked at newspapers for 27 years, focusing on design and editing of community publications. She blogs for her neighborhood at Under Oak and covers changing culture at Crossroads Charlotte. Reach her on Twitter as @underoak.
I had heard about Demand Studios from former co-workers before Wired wrote about Demand Media (Demand Studio's parent company) in October, and media pundits like Jay Rosen followed up with comments on Twitter and an interview with the company's CEO at ReadWriteWeb. [Ed: ReadWriteWeb's first analysis of Demand Media was in August.] Demand Media has been criticized for producing low-quality content designed for search engine optimization. It's not journalism, critics say, and it's clogging up Google searches, making good stuff hard to find.
But I suspect much of that criticism has come from people who haven't gone inside the Demand Studios part of Demand Media to see how it really works, or they haven't thought enough about what kind of content it provides, or they haven't thought enough about how it feels to swallow your pride and make a little money with your strongest knowledge and skills, no matter the global hourly rate.
There are differences between the user-generated content at sites Demand Media feeds, and the content generated by Demand Studios.
So let's get to it.
How it works
People sign up as writers, editors or filmmakers. I signed up as a writer. Contributors study the style guide, which gives specifics on allowed citations, and why citations are needed, and how to write for search-engine optimization without sounding too clunky. New writers can also consult forums and connect with other contributors with social-networking tools. Writers can then use keywords, pay rates and general content areas to search through available assignments. Generally, enough assignments exist that writers can find subjects of personal interest.
Fact sheets get $7.50 an assignment. I fulfilled one of those before I realized that rate of pay wasn't worth the effort. The next two assignments, for $15 each, both dealt with the same topic, with slightly different angles, and I chose them because I knew the subject well. Still, I had to do some research, to back up my statements and provide links to .edu or .gov sites. No Wikipedia allowed.
Once accepting assignments, I had a week to submit them to editors. While I could have written each piece without any research, citations and outbound links are required, as well as a summary (a nut graf, essentially, in newspaper terms). Frankly, the discipline of filling out boxes with words could help some professional writers improve the focus of their pieces. Certainly new writers can learn from the system. And the SEO tips in the style guide are worth study.
One piece I wrote was bounced back for further editing. The editor's comments were gentle but clear. I made fixes, resubmitted, and got paid, through Paypal, no invoices necessary.
What's the content?
The stories are usually how-to pieces, often broken into steps. They're evergreen, designed to be as relevant in a year or two as they are now. They're the kinds of questions I would usually get answered through a phone call to my contractor father, or my brother the car genius, or my mother the seamstress/cook/homemaker/gardener/early computer geek.
You can tell by the assignment headlines that they're generated from search engine queries, and sometimes those search terms provide some amusement. People are actually turning to Google to ask these questions? What happened to asking basic questions from friends and family?
But indeed, we're in a different world, and the criticism of Demand Media by some pundits strikes me as a bit elitist, as if the Internet weren't for everyone. A personal example:
(Daughter, 19, volunteers to help me with my eye shadow for a special event.)
Me: Where'd you learn this technique?
Her: Youtube.
(And indeed, eHow videos, supplied by Demand Media, show how to apply eye shadow.)
Next page: Swallowing my pride
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Absolutely excellent post. This has completely defined my view of Demand Media, after months of a teetering opinion.
Hehehe I liked that description and quoted it (attributed of course) on Twitter: Demand Media...SEO...making good stuff hard to find.
I signed up as a writer for Demand Media and was pretty excited about it, even for the low pay. I could put my articles on my resume/portfolio. But.....after reading their writer guidelines, keyword guide, template, and "how to" optimize the articles for SEO I was completely overwhelmed.
It killed my creativity. I was looking over my shoulder every time I wrote a sentence. I never got to the point of actually submitting an article! I left and ended up writing for a blog with no restrictions or writing template. It's my editor's job to SEO the article and clean it up. I have total control on the originality of the content I produce.
-Jack
OK, we just learned that it's good for writers who need to make a little money but...
Is it it good for web content in general and for the efficacy of search engines in particular? Does it help me find good content when I need to or does it dilute good content making it hard to find?
hj, that's precisely what I've been asking. I think Andria provides some great context, but RWW's criticism has never been targeted to the writers - it's about the impact this mass of content has on the Web ecosystem and search.
After following the Demand Media story on RWW for a few months now I can say that for me Demand Media is the "perfect storm". Their systems are efficient and for a systems person like myself the ultimate case study in building a profitable system where humans are not the bottle-neck.
What a beautiful system!
However what comes out of this system seems to be "evergreen" articles without substance. The key difference is what comes out of Demand Media seems to be in my opinion sterile content lacking passion. If my mum wrote an article on the steps to stuff a turkey it would read like something Julia Child wrote - passion - excitement - knowledge!
To be honest I hope that we lose our need for Google (search engines) and get our knowledge from articles and web sites via referrals from people we respect. This is how I found RWW and have not left the site!
Jack, I'm sorry to say that, but you sound like a journalist or writer from a different era.
"It's my editor's job to SEO the article and clean it up."
No, nowadays it's your job too. What's more, a skilled journalist nowadays should also be able to shoot a video then edit it, or record an audio piece, edit it and put a podcast together.
Stop defending your right to be elitist. Start being versatile.
The $6/hour comment is a red herring. When you start out at any freelance job, you are expected to learn your client's rules and thoroughly understand the expected style of the publisher you are working for -- all before expending a moment of time in actual production.
I think the article presented a balanced viewpoint, but why choose a writer who has only done three articles? Why not a piece from someone who has done hundreds? And let's find out why they stay at it.
Where's the signup page? I went to their website but could not find it?
I'm a content writer for Demand Studios. I have a degree in Veterinary Technology but had to quit my job because of health reasons. DS allows me to distill my knowledge to those who need it and pays me a wage that helps pay my huge medical bills and take care of my loved ones. I know I'm not writing the Great American Novel, but most writers who are making money aren't winning Pulitzers either. I get paid on time, can work from home when I want to, and don't have a boss breathing down my throat. Thank you for taking the time to actually visit and participate in the system before writing your article. That kind of discipline is what real journalism and reporting are all about!
CB
I've been with Demand Studios for over a year, I've published almost a thousand articles there. I have six kids and my goal is $100 a day, I can do this in 3-4 hours most days. I write $20 articles (they range from $2-$25) I am extremely happy with the pay. In the beginning I was much slower and it took a lot longer to reach my goals. I used to work 7 days a week but lately I've been cramming a week's worth of work into 2-3 days. Life is good:)
I agree with pappas. Someone who only did 3 articles for DS isn't in much of a position to say a whole lot. I mean that's like working in a restaurant for one day and then expounding upon it. How could you possibly have much of an opinion? Not to say her view isn't viable or wasn't good because it is. Very fair.
I'd rather see someone who has written way more as well. I've done almost 200 articles at this point and feel that someone who's done this many or more even can speak more to the system than someone who's done less than a handful.
I am a content writer for Demand Studios and the content we write for lack of a better term strives to resemble instruction manuals, encyclopedia articles, standard operating procedures - things of this nature. For individuals who prefer to read facts or instructions that give them actionable, straightforward step then content produced by Demand Studios is ideal for them. For the person who prefers imagery so they can visualize the subject and be guided through a process then Demand Media content will be a disappointment to them.
It is not for everyone. Nothing created satisfies everyone. Those who know exactly what they are searching for will find the appropriate content to meet their needs. If you are not sure then you will have some weeding out to do. If you want imagery and descriptive adjectives then read a magazine article or someone's blog. If you want straight forward information look towards the content of Demand Studios writers.
Different strokes for different folks...
pappas and KJ:
You're right that someone who has written only three articles isn't much of an expert.
I wrestled with writing the post because of that point, but went ahead because:
I had less to lose than those who had invested more time in the site;
I didn't see other people stepping up to explain the process, especially other journalists with long backgrounds in legacy media;
I wanted to give other people enough information to decide whether to invest their time in working for the company.
I'm glad to see people with more experience with Demand Studios speak up in comments.
And I agree with Richard and hj: A big question is whether Demand Media is good for search. For that question, I think DM is just a symptom of the impact of SEO and the search for Google juice. Set up a system (Google search), and sooner or later someone will figure out how to game the system to their advantage. Then someone else will set up a new system, perhaps with human elements built in, and we'll all try to figure out how to game that system. And so it goes.
Lambaba: Signup page is http://www.demandstudios.com/
I've written at Demand Studios as a side gig - I'm fortunate enough to still have regular full time employment. My experience was that most of the topics about things I knew really well had been written, or at least weren't on the lists when I searched. As a result, I found myself writing articles on topics I didn't know well, but could research enough to sound credible. I wasn't an expert, but I'm no fool either. I can source my work, and write a basic article on many topics with some research.
My work there was fine, passed editing with the occasional kickback for further format tweaks, but no major blips. But when I compared my writing there to writing about what I really know how to do well, it was clear my work was no substitute for that of a pro. If you've ever excelled at something, you understand that a novice studying your craft can't do well without coaching from someone who knows how it's really done (not necessarily someone who just can read about how it's done). That's not what I delivered.
When I did Demand studios work, my pay was around $10-15 an hour, and with no taxes taken out, that means my actual earnings once I paid taxes on that were less. Their topics are challenging enough, I doubt many people do much better and produce good work (not that some don't succeed in producing more per hour!).
But my editors didn't necessarily know more than me about a given topic; they could probably sniff out pure B.S., but my sense was they mostly cared about hewing to style, not the experience borne of really knowing a topic. What this woman says about their payment mechanisms is entirely true, however. I never had any experience where Demand did not live up to their financial obligations. They paid, on time, every time. In the writing world, that experience is less common than it should be. I'm just not sure that experience produces really high value content.
One conclusion from the comments above from people writing for Demand: it's good for writers but
am absolute TRAGEDY for web content and for web users.
In recent times I noticed a huge degradation in the quality of results returned by search engines. I suspect Demand Media's actions have a lot to do with that tragedy.
Some of you sound like it's OK with you for millionaires to suck down your talent, patience, and maybe your health and prospects, while lowering pay rates and quality expectations for all writing. Can this be?
Star: How does that compare with millionaires who "suck down your talent, patience, and maybe your health and prospects," and then lay you off after 20 years, leaving you with no pay, no writing, and no benefits . . . as is happening with print journalists all over the country? Talk with some laid-off journalists, and ask them how happy they were in the last few years. The proliferation of tv networks and garbage video programming has resulted in "content" that is far worse than you could even imagine ten years ago, but it's keeping a lot of people employed who would otherwise not be, or who would be saying, "Fries with that?" As was said earlier, Demand is not generating Pulitzers, but they are paying people twice a week. These days, that's not a small consideration. Lowering the quality expectations for all writing? Does "Jon and Kate plus 8" lower the expectations for a Scorsese? Different markets, and no reason to avoid one (as, say, an assistant cinematographer) just because the other is far superior. Not everyone gets to work for a Scorsese. Nothing wrong with a little idealism, but it's tough to trade for a gallon of milk. Are freelancers whores in some respect? The busy ones are. We (most of us--full-timers and freelancers) have been selling our souls to corporate America for decades. Some people work at Ritz-Carltons. Is that to demean folks working at a Motel 6? What's different here? I edit for Demand (it's a small percentage of what I do), and if all I ever worked on was great literature, I'd have a very short workday indeed.
Mike,
So in addition to being a journalist and a writer, I need to be an SEO? OK. Let me write my articles and then go back and fill it with keyword SPAM. Then the search engines will tag it in their algorithms that I'm stuffing my articles with keywords and penalize my PageRank. Wow. Sounds good to me! NOT.
-Jack
pappas and Mike do good jobs of spelling out market conditions.
But while Demand Studios or others are setting a floor for rates and appearing high in Google searches, I suspect the equivalent of the Ritz Carlton is out there somewhere, finding a way to reach readers and viewers with unique content and/or real reporting.
Somehow, it feels as if targeted quality will trend in 2010. In the mean time, if I get labeled a "hack," I know I can still eat, and I'll be in good company with some writers of the past.
Working for Demand Media, I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
The Web Ecosystem? Sounds slightly elitist (read=bs) to me. If you don't like it, then don't read it. If they don't pay enough, then don't work for them. If they make you do SEO, find another job. Pretty simple. Create your own ecosystem. Wow, crazy idea.
If Google doesn't want it search, they won't index it. Apparently they do. Demand's goal is to 'produce the world's content'. That's intriguing. How might Google become obsolete or challenged? If there's a competing source of content of similar size and scope perhaps?
Maybe Demand is doing what Bing wants to do with News Corp etc.., but on a bit by bit basis.
Jack: "So in addition to being a journalist and a writer, I need to be an SEO?"
Sorry, but yes you do. It's just part of the skill of being a writer these days. The best online writers can combine SEO-friendly writing with something that's readable, entertaining and informative for real human beings.
It's actually much more fun and creative than you think - and it's nothing to do with keyword stuffing.
Great article and good insight. I don't really get why people wont understand the movement towards "decentralized" content generation. This is the future (we @ Netventure24 LLC believe).
Of course there are different ways of making money through this. One way is to get paid a certain rate per article or get paid per word.
The option we prefer on our Big City Informer News Network is to share the Advertising revenue with the authors. That way good authors generate a much higher revenue while publishing their own local news. You don't "sell" your work just once, you rather keep on earning from it.
There is so much talent out there and not everybody can or want to work in a journalism position. If you meet friends you also talk about all kinds of topics with them, and not all off them are "certified" experts.
Thanks again for the article Andria
"There is so much talent out there and not everybody can or wants to work in a journalism position."
"Create your own ecosystem."
"I need to be an SEO?"
"Revenue sharing."
All interesting thoughts, y'all. What's great for the "content providers" is the number of companies seeking quality content. SEO, smart business and smart systems matter. But I'm optimistic the competition will lead to a search for quality and a need to pay content providers well. It might take awhile, and some content providers will need to learn new skills, or opt for niches that might or might not pay. But it's nice to know new markets exist.
I'm sorry, but I don't think writing 3 articles for Demand gives anyone a good idea about what working for Demand is really like.
I've only been with them for a couple of months but am absolutely thrilled with them so far. Everything I write gets an approval within 24 hours and I get paid very quickly thereafter. I should be up to at least $3,000 a month on Demand very soon and that's only one of the sites I write for.
Once you get to know what Demand wants, the articles are easy to write, fun to research and you get very few re-write requests. I don't know of another online site that is paying a fair few writers upwards of $4,000 a month to write fun stuff (and yes, there are numerous DS writers making that on Demand and more!)
Making $37.50 on Demand hardly qualifies you to write an article about it. Sorry. I make that in a hour on Demand.
I've been writing for DS for around a year. I refer to it as "tripe writing" as that is exactly what it is. The editors (CEs) are a joke a lot of the time with their rewrite requests from confusing what is actually passive voice to wanting an explanation as to why money would be in an IRA if you are closing it (from an article about that subject). There are good CEs too but they easily get overshadowed by the many bad ones. It beats having a desk job, but it truly is a joke. And it's depressing that real newspapers are using content from DS.
Great article. I am new to Demand Studios, and look forward to experiencing the benefits of DS. The article and the comments have given me a better idea of what to expect. Thanks!
Nice to see another writer's point of view on this subject. I ended up writing several articles about Demand Studios on our freelance writing blog after I first wrote up a post about whether or not writing for demand studios is worth it.
Most of the follow up articles were written to deal with the sometimes uninformed criticism of other writers. Like the author's friend in this post, I've gotten quick enough at writing articles on topics I'm already familiar with to do 3 or 4 in an hour. I stick to the $15 ones, so that works out to $45 to $60 per hour, which is a much higher rate than a lot of freelancers make elsewhere writing online. And, unlike those places, there are no minimum requirements, deadlines, or communications to manage.
In the end, I find it a great way to fill-in the freelancing pipeline.
As far as quality and clogging of the Internet and search results with basic impersonal articles, blame Google, not Demand Studios. It is becoming more apparent that their ranking algorithm is slipping. Maybe some of what was in Caffeine will make "content mills" less profitable. Until then, you can't blame someone for doing what works.
Brian Llama with ArcticLlama.com
I have written almost 500 articles for Demand Studios and not one of them has come back for SEO reasons. And I don't know the first thing about SEO. I have never even thought about using key words in my articles. I don't know anything about key words. And, I defy anyone to read my articles and tell me I stuffed them with spam keywords.
Bogus argument on the keyword stuff. Find something else to nitpick.
It's a great part time gig for students though.
Where are these mythical copy editors that get $28 an hour working? Try cutting that in half.
Great article, but perhaps you should mention that Demand Media is a bit difficult to get into, especially for copy editors? You make it sound a bit like all you have to do is sign up and start writing, which is not the case at all.
I write for Demand, and sure, I would love to make more per article, but the more I became familiar with the process the more efficient I became. I now make an average of $15 an hour writing from home. Will I do it forever? Heck no, but it's a great stop-gap.
Usually the editors are encouraging, and once you get the hang of the requirnments most articles go through without bouncing back. Sure, their required writing style is more than a bit stiff, but hey, they are the boss.
Let's get one thing clear here, and then I'll get off my soap box: Demand doesn't care if their articles help anyone. I'm sure they see it as a nice bonus when it does. the articles that we write are there to generate ad revenue, hence the boring, key word optimized writing style.
As for them being a 'sweat shop', that is, by definition, B.S. A proficient, full time Demand Media Writer (note that I didn't say 'Journalist') can make well over minimum wage. No way on their web site do they claim to pay wages that compete with the journalism industry.
You should also not under-estimate the power of writing articles for a cut of the ad revenue, which is an option. Over time a consistent writer can earn a residual income of $300 a month or more. Residual, as in, do the work once and be paid forever.
I write for Demand Studios and I consider them a blessing. The company also does holiday big bonus giveaways every so often too, which is nice. The latest is a $500 Southwest gift certificate for a vacation. They offered 2 gift certificates daily for 5 days in a drawing for writers and copy editors. What other content online company does that? I live in an area where the job economy is terrible. People are having a tough time even finding a minimum wage job in this area. They pay twice a week and that is great.
I don't think this article is fair to the company. The author should write more articles for a few months before voicing her opinion. Articles "lack personality" because they are designed to be direct, helpful and informative. Being direct also helps reduce "fluff" and get points across. If you read about SEO and internet user habits then you will see that people skim content very quickly. People want answers and solutions to problems and Demand Studios fulfills that in 400 to 500 words. We are also required to offer references to back up articles and resources to further expand the topic. The company has also cleaned up user generated content on sites like eHow to improve internet user experiences.
I'm sorry but "Cassandra James" is totally wrong. Demand Studios has changed its writing format so much that even the copy editors don't know what to do. One editor tells you to do something, then the next editor will contridict the previous one. It's beginning to be maddening. And I have noticed that rewrite requests are becoming more frequent. I'm seriously considering a switch to greener pastures.
"YOU MUST BE THIS TALL TO RIDE THE ROLLERCOASTER!
I think the question will be, what quality level will the mass production be able to achieve. There will be a limit, and sites that take a more authoritative view and give trust a boost within their content (like http://www.thefreeresource.com does) and pay their writers more for better content will win in the long run. I guess it's the different between a mass produced car and a hand crafted car. Which will last longer and have less issues? I put my money on the hand crafted vehicle. I think the same is true with the large sites that rely on mass but have little quality behind each article. We recently saw this with QA sites and will soon see it with content farms that don't live up to Google's and the users standards."
Why do I have this feeling that many of these positive posts are from DS and from people who are in their own little world?
The $4,000 a month comment was a hoot!
For those of you just breaking into this writing gig or you want to learn more about all of this, the reality is, you get paid very, VERY little. Figure $100-200 a month (around $8 an hour).
In most cases it takes at least an hour to write out and edit an article.
Don't fall for the "I can write 3-4 articles an hour and make $60 hour" BS.
Sorry, but this rarely happens.
So if it takes you at least an hour, that is normal.
On top of that, DS doesn't take all of your articles. Figure on around a few a week. Sometimes it's more.
Now, of course, many are content with making that much, for the reasons given above, while others feel that they want to make more than the average $8 an hour.
It's different strokes for different folks.
From an experienced writer who isn't in a dream world.
Correction:
I meant, one can make $100-200 a week, not month.
Sometimes, SOMETIMES, it is more than that, though.
The main reason being is that there simply are not enough articles to go around.
Demand Studios is good for, say, college students looking for extra money, folks who like to write as a hobby, or they can't work due to a handicap....but, if you want to make the kind of money that should be made as a writer, it is more like $1,000 a week, and more.