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  <id>tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2012:/start//7/tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2009:/readwritestart//7.16851-</id>
  <updated>2012-02-03T20:01:19Z</updated>
  <title>Comments for Pay-to-Pitch versus Event Sponsorships: What&apos;s the Diff?</title>
  
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  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2009:/readwritestart//7.16851</id>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/start/2009/10/pay-to-pitch-versus-event-spon.php" />
    <link rel="service.edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-atom.cgi/weblog/blog_id=7/entry_id=16851" title="Pay-to-Pitch versus Event Sponsorships: What's the Diff?" />
    <published>2009-10-21T21:00:00Z</published>
    <updated>2009-10-21T21:37:48Z</updated>
    <title>Pay-to-Pitch versus Event Sponsorships: What&apos;s the Diff?</title>
    <summary>After tech heavy hitters like Jason Calacanis, Robert Scoble and Fred Wilson expressed public outrage over its pay-to-play fees, the Keiretsu Forum has begun waiving fees for early-stage startup presentations. According to PeHUB&apos;s Deborah Gage, the network is asking its chapters to disregard presentation charges for companies with less than $500,000 in capital and for...</summary>
    <author>
      <name>Dana Oshiro</name>
      
    </author>
    
    <category term="Startups" />
    
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.readwriteweb.com/start/">
      <![CDATA[<p><img alt="keiretsu_calacanis_oct09a.jpg" src="http://www.readwriteweb.com/readwritestart/images/keiretsu_calacanis_oct09a.jpg" width="150" height="130">After tech heavy hitters like Jason Calacanis, Robert Scoble and Fred Wilson expressed public outrage over its pay-to-play fees, the Keiretsu Forum has begun waiving fees for early-stage startup presentations. According to <a href="http://www.pehub.com/53299/keiretsu-forum-to-drop-fees-for-early-stage-startups/">PeHUB's Deborah Gage</a>, the network is asking its chapters to disregard presentation charges for companies with less than $500,000 in capital and for those trying to raise less than $500,000 from investors. </p>]]>
      <![CDATA[<p><img alt="techcrunch_calacanis_oct09a.jpg" src="http://www.readwriteweb.com/readwritestart/images/techcrunch_calacanis_oct09a.jpg" width="350" height="129" align="right">In early October <a href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/readwritestart/2009/10/startup-scam-paying-to-pitch-p.php">ReadWriteWeb covered the uproar Jason Calacanis caused when he spoke out against pay-to-pitch VC presentations</a>. Said Calacanis, "It's low-class, inappropriate and predatory for a rich person to ask an entrepreneur to PAY THEM for 15 minutes of their time."</p>

<p>Since then the vocal entrepreneur/investor has been publicly outing organizations with pay-to-play presentation models. Recently he called on startup companies to boycott events like <a href="http://calacanis.com/2009/10/20/startups-please-boycott-2009-new-york-venture-summit/">New York's Venture Summit</a> and <a href="http://calacanis.com/2009/10/20/startups-please-boycott-alwaysons-venture-summit-silicon-valley-for-charing-10k-for-6-min-pitch/">AlwaysOn's Venture Summit Silicon Valley</a>. Both events charge startups as presentation sponsors before they can demo to attendees. To counter these events, Calacanis even promised to "launch competing, fee-free events directly opposite [these pay-to-play] events."</p>

<p>Meanwhile, Keiretsu Forum user Steve Bell <a href="http://startuptrek.net/steve-bells-slides-week-startups-jason-calacanis/">points to demo costs on Calacanis' TechCrunch 50 floor</a> as an example of the same pay-to-pitch tactics that the entrepreneur is rallying against. Having looked at the argument, we're unsure whether these fees can be classified as presentation fees or merely sponsorships. Perhaps this is where the ethical lines become really blurry: Because most tech events offset the cost of production with sponsorships, at what point do we draw the line between sponsor presentations and pay-to-pitch demos?</p>]]>
    </content>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2009:/readwritestart//7.16851-comment:163945</id>
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    <title>Comment from Jason on 2009-10-21</title>
    <author>
        <name>Jason</name>
        <uri></uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[<p>We offer folks who don't get into the top 50 at the TechCrunch50 half-priced tickets and a free table with wifi and power. This is NOT pay to play... this is "here is a nice thing we can do the 100 best companies that didn't make the stage." </p>

<p>Totally absurd to compare the two. </p>

<p>If someone bought ticket to a venture capital event, or a startup event, I don't have a problem with that.</p>

<p>Paying to pitch an angel investors? That's insane to me.... and also, it seems to Keiretsu Forum which just announced they are dropping these absurd fees. </p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-10-21T21:31:15Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2009:/readwritestart//7.16851-comment:163946</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2009:/readwritestart//7.16851" type="text/html" href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/start/2009/10/pay-to-pitch-versus-event-spon.php"/>
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    <title>Comment from Defunkt Shirts on 2009-10-21</title>
    <author>
        <name>Defunkt Shirts</name>
        <uri></uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[<p>It is akin to paying for your modeling portfolio which means you are not good enough and will most likely never receive a penny. </p>

<p>Your energy is better spent developing your product!</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-10-21T21:55:24Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2009:/readwritestart//7.16851-comment:163947</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2009:/readwritestart//7.16851" type="text/html" href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/start/2009/10/pay-to-pitch-versus-event-spon.php"/>
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    <title>Comment from Richard Cunningham on 2009-10-21</title>
    <author>
        <name>Richard Cunningham</name>
        <uri>http://friendbinder.com/users/rythie</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://friendbinder.com/users/rythie">
        <![CDATA[<p>Lots of event give cut price tickets to startups to attend, TC50 did the same thing, but gave them a table too.</p>

<p>The only times I've seen people get tables elsewhere is where they have to pay a lot more than the normal attending price.</p>

<p>I can't see how Jason can be faulted on this point.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-10-21T22:16:11Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2009:/readwritestart//7.16851-comment:163952</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2009:/readwritestart//7.16851" type="text/html" href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/start/2009/10/pay-to-pitch-versus-event-spon.php"/>
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    <title>Comment from Müzik Dinle on 2009-10-21</title>
    <author>
        <name>Müzik Dinle</name>
        <uri>http://muzikkolik.net</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://muzikkolik.net">
        <![CDATA[<p>very much money</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-10-21T22:40:22Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2009:/readwritestart//7.16851-comment:163953</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2009:/readwritestart//7.16851" type="text/html" href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/start/2009/10/pay-to-pitch-versus-event-spon.php"/>
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    <title>Comment from Müzik Dinle on 2009-10-21</title>
    <author>
        <name>Müzik Dinle</name>
        <uri>http://muzikkolik.net</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://muzikkolik.net">
        <![CDATA[<p>very much money</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-10-21T22:42:01Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2009:/readwritestart//7.16851-comment:164094</id>
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    <title>Comment from jeux on 2009-10-22</title>
    <author>
        <name>jeux</name>
        <uri>http://www.zoombits.fr/jeux/</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.zoombits.fr/jeux/">
        <![CDATA[<p>I think events / shows are different than one on one pitches... if there are angels or VC's out there saying, " Hey Start-up.... I'd be willing to listen to your pitch for 30 min. for $500... I think that's ludicrous .... but then again.... you have to ask yourself what self-respecting entrepreneur would pay ?<br />
</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-10-22T07:59:14Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2009:/readwritestart//7.16851-comment:164143</id>
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    <title>Comment from Engago Team on 2009-10-22</title>
    <author>
        <name>Engago Team</name>
        <uri>http://www.leadsexplorer.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.leadsexplorer.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>Pitching to VC's is a waste of time if the company has a revenue generating business.<br />
Instead of pitching entrepreneurs should be listening to potential customers and try to solve their problems.<br />
</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-10-22T09:41:05Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2009:/readwritestart//7.16851-comment:164195</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2009:/readwritestart//7.16851" type="text/html" href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/start/2009/10/pay-to-pitch-versus-event-spon.php"/>
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    <title>Comment from Letitia Green on 2009-10-22</title>
    <author>
        <name>Letitia Green</name>
        <uri>http://www.virginiaactiveangelnetwork.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.virginiaactiveangelnetwork.com">
        <![CDATA[<p>It has astonished the smaller angel groups like ours (Virginia Active Angel network) that anyone pays to play. It is self-selecting quite frankly. 3 years ago I attended an annual event in NY and it turned out to be all vendors, and only a few actual angels in the room. The entrepreneurs paid up to $10K to present to this (well-known) NY room and someone had the audacity to send in a video touting oil & gas well futures. I was very embarrassed that I didn't know prior to flying up there and attending that it was a pay-go deal. Forget that there were so few people in the audience that were actually representing real money, that only 7 of us qualified to win the "prize" at the end (which ended up giving me a two-year old never used laptop), it was unseemly. We at VAAn spend a great deal of time working with the companies that we do invest in by educating them that they should not be using the early and seed-stage funds to fly around for beauty contests with 1) funds that are over 3 years old and only have dry powder left; 2) companies overseas that claim if you come over there they may be a strategic partner if you're really not at that stage yet; and 3) ANY organization that makes you pay for anything MORE than your meal at the event if you are chosen. At VAAN, in Virginia (Blacksburg, Roanoke, Charlottesville & Richmond) that amounts to about $35 paid directly to the restaurant in each city. This is great that the conversation is in the open and organizations that do charge more than a nominal barrier-to-reality fee are rethinking the model, particularly since as others have pointed out above, who wants a company that would spend their funds like that, or NEED to spend their funds like that to get noticed. How good is the product, really?</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-10-22T14:32:30Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2009:/readwritestart//7.16851-comment:167854</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2009:/readwritestart//7.16851" type="text/html" href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/start/2009/10/pay-to-pitch-versus-event-spon.php"/>
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    <title>Comment from Steve on 2009-11-10</title>
    <author>
        <name>Steve</name>
        <uri>http://StartupTrek.net</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://StartupTrek.net">
        <![CDATA[<p>I would like to comment here from the perspective of a MEMBER of the Keiretsu Forum.  I am not "with" the Keiretsu Forum (the Company) and do not represent their views.</p>

<p>What is astonishing here to me, is that Jason has launched this campaign "to destroy" all these Angel organizations without doing any homework to determine the facts of the situation, with regards to how this side of the private equity market works.  OF COURSE it would be ridiculous for a wealthy Angel to charge an entrepreneur just for a few minutes (or even for a few hours, or days) of his/her time.  But that is NOT what is going on here!</p>

<p>Jason characterizes (wrongly) we Keiretsu Forum members as "fat cats", scamsters (and with various vulgarities), out to "rip off" poor, struggling, nearly-broke young entrepreneurs by taking their money for a few minutes of our time.  All of this is untrue.  First of all, we look 95% at going businesses, and are more likely to compete with the local Bank, than with venture capitalists.  We don't really have much of an appetite for "concept stage" deals.  Secondly, an accredited investor is not necessarily a "fat cat" the criteria is $1M net worth OR $200K tax return Gross income for the past two years; not exactly "fat cat" by 2009 standards.  Jason, if you want to see a "Fat Cat", look in the mirror!  Finally, we are very passionate about helping entrepreneurs (of all ages), and we are most certainly not "a Scam" or "a bunch of D.Bags"; QUITE THE CONTRARY in my experience.  </p>

<p>The Keiretsu Forum is a large-scale, global service organization with 49 full-time employees to pay.  Members not only pay the vast majority of the operating costs, they donate (on the average) a fourth to a third of their time to helping the entrepreneurs that come through.  The Keiretsu Forum itself is a business which does not share in any "upside" from the startups that come through, as it takes no equity and none of the investment capital flows through the Keiretsu Forum.  It is just a professional service organization. </p>

<p>The Keiretsu Forum holds over 50 brick-and-mortar meetings a month, along with hundreds of diligence teleconferences, events, training sessions, and meetings that support entrepreneurs.   Over 200 startups have been invested in with over $200M since Keiretsu was launched back in Sept. 2000 (and 110+ Charities to boot). </p>

<p>The Keiretsu very much resembles, in it's investment profile, a $250M seed venture capital fund.  To conduct professional-level deal screening, presentations worldwide, and extensive due diligence processes on hundreds of companies worldwide, and service the equivalent of 850 actively-involved LP's, requires an operating budget.  In the venture capital world, 2% management annually provides a $5M operating budget for comparable activites.  In the case of the Keiretsu, it is done on a relative shoestring because the donation of members' time creates the equivalent of about $6M annual diligence budget (by my own estimation).  But the employees salaries, insurance, and the myriad of other expenses must still be paid.  In the venture capital world, this cost is born entirely by the LP's.  In the Keiretsu Forum, 90+% of it is born by the Angels who utilize the Keiretsu's services, as members. </p>

<p>Jason makes the charge that we Keiretsu members are "putting the poor entrepreneurs money in our pockets", positioning himself as the modern-day Robin Hood for entrepreneurs.  But that is not a fact; zero money comes to the Angels.  Instead, we PAY to be members.  He seems to be operating under the delusion that everything is free, or should be free.  The world actually doesn't work that way. </p>

<p>Very few companies presenting at the Keiretsu are "concept stage"; most are companies with operating records and cash flow, able to pay small fees.  Of the 50 to 100 who apply to the Bay Area chapters monthly, only 3 to 5 of them end up paying a fee - those that actually present.  And of those that present, historically, they have a 55 to 60% chance of being funded. </p>

<p>Jason has framed the discussion in a way that is nonsensical.  A sporting equivalent would be "We will KILL OFF everyone who is promoting Babe Ruth's heritage as a great Football player!  Go Footballers!!".  He simply knows very little about the private equity space.  I am going to publish a series of educational videos to educate him about the basics. </p>

<p>There are many other things that Jason "Crass-a-Canis" (an apt name that a commenter on my blog assigned - look up the definition of CRASS) is doing that are flat out untrue, slanderous, and completely WRONG.  He also has taken an EXTREMELY nasty tone, calling us 850 Keiretsu Members various terms including "D.Bags" on Leo Laporte's show.  He invited me onto his TV show, then reneged, switching me to Skype video.  Then he cut off my sound and made a ceremony of kicking me off.  He's declined several cordial invitations I extended to attend the Keiretsu Forum, instead ridiculing the invitations.  And clearly, he does not WANT to learn anything about the facts of the situation.  </p>

<p>I am reviewing all of the video of Jason, the people he's had on his TWIST show, on Leo Laporte's show, and will be issuing a video rebuttal to each and every point he's making.  He simply has NOT DONE HIS HOMEWORK, and is dead-wrong on this one.  I will pay special attention to his guest "Mr. Pink" and the ex-Keiretsu employee, focusing on the facts of every detail.</p>

<p>Sincerely,</p>

<p>-steve bell | founder & ceo | StartupTrek.net | (310) 922-5574 cell# | steve@StartupTrek.net</p>

<p><a href="http://StartupTrek.net/about/" rel="nofollow">http://StartupTrek.net/about/</a></p>

<p>Guest Lecturer, Entrepreneurship & Innovation, Orfalea School of Business, Cal Poly University, San Luis Obispo, CA</p>

<p>Member, Keiretsu Forum, Silicon Valley Chapter</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-11-10T22:45:51Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2009:/readwritestart//7.16851-comment:167865</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2009:/readwritestart//7.16851" type="text/html" href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/start/2009/10/pay-to-pitch-versus-event-spon.php"/>
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    <title>Comment from Steve on 2009-11-10</title>
    <author>
        <name>Steve</name>
        <uri>http://StartupTrek.net</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://StartupTrek.net">
        <![CDATA[<p>A P.S. on Jason's Tech Crunch charges to entrepreneurs.  He has been doing a lot of "spinning" about how they "get a free table", how "the get half price", etc.  </p>

<p>OK, so they get "a free table" (a low-budget booth of sorts).   BUT, they PAY $1,500 for each chair AT that table.  Each startup employee has to staff the table, they are not going to the conference.  And their PRIMARY ACTIVITY is to "pitch investors".  The crowd there is at least half, more likely 70% Venture Capitalists, and the startups are in the DemoPit to gain their attention, for purposes of investment.  One startup contacted me, miffed that they had to pay SEVEN $1,500 fees to Jason, for their booth.  Calacanis claims he is "hardly breaking even" but I have done my homework on the cost of both his venue, and the cost of organizing his event.  He is making a MINT off the DemoPit. </p>

<p>Also regarding TechCrunch50 conference - several people "in the know" have emailed and Twittered me to tell me that at this year's TechCrunch50, Mike & Jason raised $2M from Corporate sponsorships - $250K from Microsoft alone.  I do not know the facts, but that would make sense to me.  They also charge $1k to $3k of each attendee (probably $2k average).  </p>

<p>How much of this money did they give to the ~350 startups presenting at their event?  $50k.  Now that speaks a world of truth about where they are REALLY coming from.</p>

<p>Contrast that to the Keiretsu Forum, which invests $30 to $50M annually into startups ($30M in 2008, despite the Q3/Q4 economic crisis).  </p>

<p>-steve b.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-11-11T00:07:46Z</published>
  </entry>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2009:/readwritestart//7.16851-comment:167897</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.readwriteweb.com,2009:/readwritestart//7.16851" type="text/html" href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/start/2009/10/pay-to-pitch-versus-event-spon.php"/>
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    <title>Comment from Steve on 2009-11-10</title>
    <author>
        <name>Steve</name>
        <uri>http://StartupTrek.net</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://StartupTrek.net">
        <![CDATA[<p>Now Jason, just to correct another fact.  You are claiming that the Keiretsu Forum has "asked Chapters to drop certain fees". aka, declaring victory.  And you've blamed that on the excellent journalist Deborah Gage, who i spent quite a bit of time speaking with last week.  I don't think she really said that.  If so, she definitely made a gross mistake.  Maybe you should check your facts, before declaring a major victory here?</p>

<p>The online problem is:  THAT IS (also) NOT TRUE.  </p>

<p>Nothing of the sort has happened, dude.</p>

<p>I can only imagine how desperately you want to declare an "early victory" here, but it's time to DO SOME HOMEWORK and get your facts straight. </p>

<p>You have not done anything to change the Keiretsu Forum.  I don't know of a single member, besides myself, who even takes you seriously.  Most members don't even want to know who you are; or once they get a taste of you, turn the channel off very quickly.  Except for me.</p>

<p>Things you say seem to be from some sort of fantasy world you apparently live in!  Wise up, as i will be here fact-checking you for a VERY long time.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-11-11T04:41:26Z</published>
  </entry>

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